Scaremongering over demolitions?

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Superplonk
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Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Superplonk » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:42 am

In a town in Andalucia there is a councillor who runs a consultancy business with many expat customers. He has recently sent out a letter informing owners of campo properties that a new law coming into effect on 7th May will make it almost impossible to register houses. This will lead to "draconian fines" and "express demolition" orders for those who fail to take up the offer of a quick trip to his office before the aforementioned date. There is no mention in the letter of his dual role.

I read widely and have not seen a mention of this specific new law anywhere else. Would anyone care to comment?

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:33 pm

he is correct in that after may7th it will be almost impossible to register a vivienda using an "over 4 year certificate" which has been possible up to now.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby aligato » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:11 pm

Would this also be the case with a 100 year plus campo house with mains electric and mains water?

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:58 pm

it would depend on your town hall, as the town hall would have to give you a certificate, maybe with a 100 year old property they may give you the certificate needed



I think it would be very inappropriate in a letter from a private business to state that he is also a town hall councillor(I think you´ll find that he is an ex-pat himself if I´m not mistaken)
Last edited by julian on Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Superplonk
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Superplonk » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:00 pm

I believe that the theoretical gentleman has NOT stated that he is playing for both teams. Now that's inappropriate.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:03 pm

if it is a letter from a private business he should not use, nor mention, his councillor status in any way.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Superplonk » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:09 pm

...or maybe he could stand aside to avoid accusations of a conflict of interests.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:21 pm

maybe superplonk

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Maddi » Mon May 10, 2010 1:50 am

Ok, I read this on the Friday evening, frantically emailed lawyer to register house, and after nerve-racking few days, we have been informed that we have registered by 7th May. Do we believe this? So during past 5 years, all done everything by book - obtained "building licence" from Mayor, employed Architect registered with "Collegio de Arcitecto", Spanish lawyer, Spanish builder, have our "Obra de Fin", pay for our agua, luz and waste disposal. So, why do I still worry about whether our Spanish home is "legal". This is Spain, I'm told. And then I'm told you need to write to your MEP, to fight for our "legality". Crazy. I dont need this. We bought this for peace and tranquility. :sick: :x
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Mon May 10, 2010 8:01 am

registering your house in the property registry doesn´t make it more, nor less, legal...easier to sell yes, but more legal, no.

has anyone told you your house is illegal?

"So, why do I still worry about whether our Spanish home is legal"....probably because you read too many scaremongering forums !! relax !!

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Maddi » Tue May 11, 2010 12:37 am

Hi Julian. No, no-one has stated that our house is illegal, but there again, no-one was declared illegal until they were declared illegal, if you know what I mean! :? OK yes,scaremongering goes on, and you can't be blamed for thinking, there's no smoke without fire. There are very scary stories about, and then paranoia sets in, justified or not.
Relax? I do try, but then I have so much and so many that rely on me, I cannot let them down.
I'm guessing that the Junta are setting up their stalls and constructing "legitimate" ways of achieving additional revenue - ie penalties on "illegal" homes.
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Tue May 11, 2010 7:30 am

there is also the possibility of a meteorite falling on the house to worry about.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby katy » Tue May 11, 2010 9:48 am

How much do the ayuntamientos charge for those :mrgreen:

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spanish_lad
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby spanish_lad » Tue May 11, 2010 11:25 pm

and do you need a licence ? :shifty: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby Maddi » Sun May 23, 2010 2:23 am

Julian, not so difficult to quantify the possibility of a meteorite falling on my Spanish home. Katy do not see the challenge of the ayuntamiento at “charging for those”, and Spanish lad, why would I need a licence?. Sorry, days on, still cant find the funny side of your comments. So, Curly, Larry and Mo, what are your takes, if and when the **** finally hits the fan?
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby katy » Sun May 23, 2010 8:26 am

Yes you are right, I wouldn't see the funny side either if I was worried about the legality of my home :oops:

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun May 23, 2010 9:28 am

Maddi, you are choosing to worry , no one has said your house is illegal, you have all the paperwork you need, so if you want to worry then it´s your choice, this is the result of scaremongering, people that have no problems are permantantly worried.
there are thousands of things that could happen to us in all fields..... house , health, car, family, friends etc, but the chances are that none of the things we worry about will actually happen(apart from death which has a very, very high probability of affecting all of us), so if you want to worry about the illegality and demolition of your house then it also makes sense to worry about a meteorite falling on it, which may also happen.

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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby peteroldracer » Sun May 23, 2010 2:36 pm

Remember that an ostrich may be happy with its head buried in the sand, but perhaps less joyful when suddenly shafted from behind!
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby julian » Sun May 23, 2010 3:51 pm

maybe you´re right Peter, maybe it´s better to worry about everything that may, but probably won´t, happen in the future,the only thing that almost certainly would then happen is having health problems from permanant worrying.(there´s another thing to add to the worry list while you´re worrying about everything else, best write them all done so you can go through them everynight just before you go to bed)

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DavidSearl
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Re: Scaremongering over demolitions?

Postby DavidSearl » Sun May 23, 2010 6:55 pm

FROM DAVID SEARL

FOR SUPERPLONK, MADDI, JULIAN AND OTHERS


1. Let's get this one out of the way first. It is perfectly legal for a Town Councillor to run a local business. He might have a cement factory or the distributorship for Coca Cola, or a legal consulting office. It would not be ethical if he advertised his business as being "connected" with the Town Hall. This amounts to a form of "soliciting" as it implies his connections will get you special treatment, which would be misuse of influence, which is indeed illegal. Still, it is always good to know someone in the Town Hall, my father (a Town Councillor) explained to me once.

2. What happened on May 7 was that the "Reglamento" of the Andalusian Land Law went into effect, years after the passage of the Law itself. The "Reglamento" of any law sets out more detailed specifications for the application of the law, in this case relating to "Disciplina Urbanistica". This Regulation provides more local control and authority, giving rise to the "express demolitions" title. The idea behind it is to let the Town Halls act rapidly and decisively to avoid the dragged-out legal process which allowed people to keep building while appealing decisions against them, for example.

3. The specific provision to which our "scaremonger" refers is one that states that a dwelling must now have a "Licencia de Primera Ocupación" in order to be registered in the Property Registry. This licence is issued by the Town Hall after an inspection of the property to make sure it meets the specifications set out in the original licence. If Maddi has everything else, she probably has a First Occupation Licence as well, or should have no difficulty obtaining one. It formerly was not necessary for Registration. Julian is quite right to point out that Registration does not ensure "legality" as thousands of property buyers in Marbella can tell you.

4. As to 100-year-old properties which have been lived in all that time and never had any permits or licences or anything at all, I am sure that a Town Hall will make other provisions, and that your "Certificado de Notoriedad" for example, whereby various witnesses or photos or other evidence are presented to prove the pre-existence of it, will come into play.

There will be more detail on this in the Update edition of "You and the Law in Spain" out at the end of June.

Good luck with it, David Searl
You and the Law in Spain


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