Can't afford autonomo

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
gus-lopez
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby gus-lopez » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:52 pm

katy wrote:I think Jukim is a she :)

One of our cleaners told me she paid a reduced rate autonomo. Specifically set up for agricultural workers who work part time for different employers. Was a few years ago.
I was just about to post the same. Don't know if it applies to women only though. the reduced rate is something like 30-40€ month.
it seems a bit illogical to me as many around here clean 3 or 4 houses/apartments a day at 7 to 10 euros an hour.
Todos somos Lorca.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:56 pm

Thanks everybody for commiserations and advice. :thumbup: Firstly, yes I am female but don't take offence :) As for the other autonomo, wouldn't apply to me as I work mainly for clients who need my invoices to offset their own taxes so cash is not an option. As for getting help from others, I've tried everything I can think of. Don't get me wrong, I'm not eaten up with bitterness... it's just that all my life I've worked honestly and paid my dues and all I want to do now is to be able to stay in Spain and pay what's due but because of the short-sightedness of the system I just can't any more. I'm hoping to take a couple of months off paying autonomo in the hopes that things will improve on the work front but if not, I will sadly have no choice but to leave. I haven't given up hope just felt a bit bitter when I look around at the number of people who never pay a penny yet still manage to enjoy a rather lavish lifestyle and tell me I'm doing things wrong because I'm honest. :shock: I still don't think I am.

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avellana
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby avellana » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:34 am

I understand your predicament entirely and am pleased to see so many others contribute to this post.

I'm a self-employed TEFL teacher whose income varies considerably but I still have to pay 275+ euros per month. Luckily I now receive my state pension from the UK which helps with the cash flow.

Like you I was brought up to work and be honest but it certainly doesn't pay to do that here!
Basically you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't!

I really hope things improve for you and that you can continue to live and work here.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby olive » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:25 pm

Jukim - you have my sympathy too. My only suggestion would be can you do online work for similar folk (Spanish speakers maybe) in a different country or elsewhere in your specialism.

As a general question, is it possible to deregister for two months and register for a month ad infinitum (or until things improve whichever comes first)? That way health cover continues for the 3 month period of non payment. Any work coming the way of the individual would only be carried out and invoiced during the actual registered month. The government might actually change the legislation if loads of people did the same.............

I think Spain could do worse than ecourage rural or even urban tourism by having a more sensible tax regime. There must be thousands of folk that could or would offer B and B if they wouldn't be taxed to death on projected rather than actual occupancy. All those extra visitors would help the economy no end.

The reduced price Agricultural Autonomo is quite a lot more than the figure suggested above and there are MANY hoops to jump through to qualify. Even the one that is about half the std rate has hoops and loops to meet.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:09 pm

olive wrote:Jukim - you have my sympathy too. My only suggestion would be can you do online work for similar folk (Spanish speakers maybe) in a different country or elsewhere in your specialism.
Thanks Olive. All the work I do is with clients online both here and in the UK but there are so many people out there looking for the same jobs it's a bit of a risk from a payment point of view too. I have no doubt things will pick up eventually but it will be too late to help my continued honesty I'm afraid.

As for the other suggestion, knowing the Spanish love of paperwork which would all need to be done by an assesoria, I would probably end up paying as much to him as I would for autonomo!!! :lolno:

I never understand why self-employed people are so badly treated (even in teh UK to a lesser extent) when actually it's someone paying their own way, contributing to the national purse and leaving a job open for someone else. Beats me. :eh:

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hiker
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hiker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:17 pm

I'm in a similar situation, too. I earn relatively low income but pay out €300 per month for tax and gestor.

I closed down for three months in the summer (too hot for hiking) and stopped paying the Social Security for that duration on advise from my gestor.
When I restarted it was simply a phone call to him and he started it all up again automatically. Very simple and easy. I suspect I will do the same again this coming summer.

The up-front payments are completely anti-small business. There is no other word for it.

I'm investigating opening my business back home in Dublin and employing myself through that company.

Here is a little info I gleaned from the internet.
the information is relevant to Irish citizens but its probebly the same for UK citizens too.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... he_eu.html

"Workers posted to another EU country
You have certain specific rights if you are a posted worker, that is, you work for a limited period of time in a member state other than the one where you normally work. If you are to be posted for a period of more than a month, your employer must inform you in writing, before you leave, of your pay and working conditions while you are abroad.

You will usually remain affiliated to the social security system of your country of origin. You may pay income tax in that country as well but the situation varies between member states. You can find out about health and social security entitlements for posted workers in 'Further information' below.."

"Further information

Posted workers

You are a posted worker if your employer sends you to work in another country on a temporary basis. From 1 May 2010 the period of the posting is 24 months (was 12 months) or less. If you are posted to another EEA state or Switzerland you have certain rights as follows:

Social insurance
As a posted worker you generally will continue to pay your social security contributions in Ireland. You should apply for an A1 (formerly E101) certificate which states that you are insured for social security purposes in Ireland. This will exempt you and your employer from paying social insurance in the country to which you are posted. At least 4 weeks before you leave you or your employer should apply for the AI certificate. You can download the application form for an A1 (pdf) and it is also available from the PRSI Special Collection Unit of the Department of Social Protection (DSP). When you get the A1 certificate you will continue to pay your PRSI contributions in Ireland. There are further details about PRSI and posted workers on the DSP website..."
putting the "ANDA" into Andalucía..:)

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Worth thinking about but I'm too worn out to try... just going to live off my meagre savings and when they're all gone, sell the house and take it from there :crazy: :lol: see it's finally driven me round the bend and I now truly believe that honesty :angel: is not always the best policy and maybe cheats do prosper (at least all the ones I've met do) :shock: :shock:

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hiker
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hiker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:33 pm

jukim wrote:Worth thinking about but I'm too worn out to try... just going to live off my meagre savings and when they're all gone, sell the house and take it from there :crazy: :lol: see it's finally driven me round the bend and I now truly believe that honesty :angel: is not always the best policy and maybe cheats do prosper (at least all the ones I've met do) :shock: :shock:
Drop down to me any day in Frigiliana and we'll go for a walk in the hills..
No charge - on the house..:)

I find a few hours in the mountains is a great way to forget your worries.
putting the "ANDA" into Andalucía..:)

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:38 pm

Thanks :thumbup:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby markwilding » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:00 pm

Another strange quirk of the system is that you have to pay your social security before you receive that months earnings, based on the fact that I invoice everything at the end of the month, then usually get paid from about the 5th to the 25th of the following month.
If your trying to set up a small business with limited income, the first payment must be a very hard,which in fact would put many off even starting.
Last edited by markwilding on Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jukim
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:02 am

I know... all they do is force people to leave the system and therefore receive less revenue... surely someone somewhere in government should realise that if it wasn't so punitive to be self employed, more people would enter the system and they'd collect more revenue anyway. :problem:

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hiker
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hiker » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:00 pm

It explains why there is 23% unemployment.

I suspect that figure would halve overnight if social security was a percentage of salary.
putting the "ANDA" into Andalucía..:)

AndaluzCampo
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby AndaluzCampo » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Hello Jukim. I too am sorry to hear of your predicament.
I'm sorry that I can't offer any advice other than that I have seen advice and information being made available to set up your own business recently, as well as grants to those in the tourist industry for help with certain things.
As one poster pointed out though, we do have many different cultural and ethical values in the various European Union countries, and with British and Spanish, including that of taxes.
We have had great difficulty obtaining proper receipts for services from certain workers.
How can I tell if someone is a 'genuine autonomo' and not just a parasitical tax dodger?

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:50 am

AndaluzCampo wrote:We have had great difficulty obtaining proper receipts for services from certain workers.
How can I tell if someone is a 'genuine autonomo' and not just a parasitical tax dodger?
Tricky one... I have to invoice because the people I do work for are themselves businesses who require invoices to set off against tax. I suspect that a lot of "tradespeople" only "declare" bigger amounts on invoices and the rest is cash and not declared. And as can be seen from this thread, not all are "parasitical tax dodgers"... just folk trying to be honest and make a living. If it is for a large job I would ask for an invoice which should include their NIE. :think:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Devils Advocate » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:57 am

A lot of the Spanish,God love 'em, don't know or understand the old fashioned "uk" meaning of what cash is. They'll demand it in readies, pocket it, buy a new Berlingo that very day, and still give you a receipt, as I say they couldn't give a toss about the bogey man :D
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:35 am

I'm beginning to think like a Spaniard! :lol:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Zofia » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:31 am

Hi Jukim, just to say I'm in exactly the same situation and have just deregistered as I lost my 'main' source of income and simply won't be earning enough to carry on paying. I actually do work a few hours online for a UK company (as was the one I've just lost) and am not declaring that income (I know, illegal and all that but it's only £300 a month max, I just can't afford it). I intend to go back to the UK system and pay it there, as it's a British company and I'm paid into my UK bank account. My OH works in the UK, so most of our living expenses come from him. As far as the Spanish authorities need to know, I have just become a housewife, living off my husband's income.....I hope they buy it. I am worried about healthcare though, but my lawyer seems to think I can go on the landworker's rate. What do 'housewives' who live off their husbands income from abroad do for healthcare? There must be plenty around.

Zofia

(hoping my local hacienda isn't reading these forums...)
Finally really and properly living in Andalucia.

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hillybilly
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hillybilly » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:11 pm

You can probably get health cover using the E109!

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Zofia » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:25 pm

Is that the same as EHIC? the old E111? thought that only covered for emergencies. I do have one but think it's run out. As we are not married I don't think my OH's one would cover me anyway, but it would cover the kids.

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hillybilly
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hillybilly » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:33 pm

No - it's to provide health cover for the spouses who live abroad of people who work in the UK.


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