Expired Residencia - new EU Cert

[markwilding]

There is also a lack of obligation in the reference. I understand it as advice, that you should inform the relevant authorities, not that you must.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I'm interpreting it.

[El Cid]

I think that we have differing understanding of this. I read it that the residency certificate remaining in force depends upon the continuation of the circumstances which allowed its issue. Moving from one address to another does not negate its issue, moving out of the country does. So does a change of nationality or marriage/divorce if it affects EU residency rights. Moving from Granada to Sevilla does not affect EU Spain residency rights. Even if you construed that PDF passage as you have, (which I believe to be incorrect) there is no requirement to any further payment.

You can read into it what you like but as far as I am concerned it says that if you change your circumstances including your address you must inform the police. If you choose to translate it to suit yourself that's up to you.

Sid

[Enrique]

Hi,
That's my reading of it , not much point in having a Document with the wrong info on it.
So any changes need to be registered.

[markwilding]

There is also a lack of obligation in the reference. I understand it as advice, that you should inform the relevant authorities, not that you must.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I'm interpreting it.

Whoops, Looking at it again this morning with a clear head,I can clearly see that the obligation is there.

[Marina]

PMSL!

[DrNCT]

I have the green A4 EU citizen permanent residence Certificate, issued in Sept 2011, after 5 years here on the old (plastic) card.

To arrange a Registro de Union de Pareja de Hecho with my non-EU girlfriend in Andalucia it seems that the Certificate cannot be more than 3 months old.

Q. Do I have to go through the whole "renewal" process (Form EX-18 etc etc) or is there some other way of having a valid and "unexpiring" Certificate re-dated in some way? (3 month delay here in Madrid for a renewal appointment).

Any answers gratefully received.

[gus-lopez]

Q. Do I have to go through the whole "renewal" process (Form EX-18 etc etc) or is there some other way of having a valid and "unexpiring" Certificate re-dated in some way? (3 month delay here in Madrid for a renewal appointment).

Any answers gratefully received.

I fail to see how ther can be a "3 month wait " for a renewal appt ? Are that many people renewing something that, Under EU rules, specifically state has no renewal. "once &once only ,with no requirement for renewal."
I'd ask for the 'hojas' .

[knowal]

To arrange a Registro de Union de Pareja de Hecho with my non-EU girlfriend in Andalucia it seems that the Certificate cannot be more than 3 months old.

More baloney from the authorities?
The only document that the authorities normally want to be less than 3 months old is the certificado de empadronamiento. Is it possible that there is some confusion?

Most people applying for a "Certificado de registro como residente comunitario" are being blanked at offices. They are taking the money and paperwork, then saying "we'll let you know", wait for a phone call...

[DrNCT]

I fail to see how ther can be a "3 month wait " for a renewal appt ? Are that many people renewing something that, Under EU rules, specifically state has no renewal. "once &once only ,with no requirement for renewal."
I'd ask for the 'hojas' .

That's how long it takes in Madrid to turn your NIE document with expiry date into a green permanent residence document without expiry date after being in Spain 5 years. Every official I ask is telling me I need to "renew" but I have already been though this step. There must be another way to get the permanent unexpired document re-dated... or insist that it does not need to be less than 3 months old.

More baloney from the authorities?
The only document that the authorities normally want to be less than 3 months old is the certificado de empadronamiento. Is it possible that there is some confusion?

Regarding the requirement in Andalucia, I have been told the following:

a.) 2. PRESENCIA EN EL TERRITORIO ESPAÑOL SUPERIOR A 3 MESES:

2.1. Si las personas solicitantes son nacionales de un Estado miembro de la U.E. o de los Estados miembros del Espacio Económico Europeo:

Pasaporte o documento de identificación nacional y Certificado de inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros, cuya fecha de expedición no deberá ser superior a 3 meses anteriores a la fecha de presentación de la solicitud de inscripción en el Registro de Parejas de Hecho

[knowal]

More baloney from the authorities?
The only document that the authorities normally want to be less than 3 months old is the certificado de empadronamiento. Is it possible that there is some confusion?

Regarding the requirement in Andalucia, I have been told the following:

a.) 2. PRESENCIA EN EL TERRITORIO ESPAÑOL SUPERIOR A 3 MESES:

2.1. Si las personas solicitantes son nacionales de un Estado miembro de la U.E. o de los Estados miembros del Espacio Económico Europeo:

Pasaporte o documento de identificación nacional y Certificado de inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros, cuya fecha de expedición no deberá ser superior a 3 meses anteriores a la fecha de presentación de la solicitud de inscripción en el Registro de Parejas de Hecho

Is the Certificado de inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros the same as a Certificado de registro como residente comunitario?
They don't sound quite the same.
I take it you got these details from this document?
They have made their rules up without regard to the EU Law.
It's all very annoying, to say the least.
Best of luck with them.

[DrNCT]

Is the Certificado de inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros the same as a Certificado de registro como residente comunitario?
They don't sound quite the same.
I take it you got these details from this document?
They have made their rules up without regard to the EU Law.
It's all very annoying, to say the least.
Best of luck with them.

They documents equate to the same thing I think (similar language in the body of the text) - though I will have one last go at checking how to get it re-dated without being renewed here in Madrid with one of the offices.

Do you have a reference for the EU Law you mention. I presume you're suggesting that under freedom of movement of people, we shouldn't have to register at all.

Thanks for the luck - I'll need it.

[knowal]

This is the reference applying to EU citizens:

Please refer to 38/2004/EC:

Article 25
General provisions concerning residence documents
1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.

[DrNCT]

This is the reference applying to EU citizens:

Please refer to 38/2004/EC:

Article 25
General provisions concerning residence documents
1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.

Many thanks! I'll do some digging just in case

[gus-lopez]

I'd suggest this;

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... dex_en.htm

click on 'permanent residence'
If you print this , in english, then top right change language to spanish & print again. Highlight the parts in both that state


"Permanent residence document

This is different from the registration certificate which is compulsory in many countries. The permanent residence document is not compulsory. It confirms your right to live in the country where you now live permanently, without any conditions.

This means that the authorities may no longer require you to prove that you have a job, sufficient resources, health insurance, and so on."

Then this ;

"If you ask the authorities for a permanent residence document, they must issue it as soon as possible and for no more than nationals pay for identity cards. If they do not, you can call on our assistance service. "

& here for the definitive statement that it does not have to be renewed

"The document should be valid indefinitely and does not have to be renewed. "

& to get one all you need is ;

"To get one, you must submit:

proof you have been living in the country for 5 years, for example a valid registration certificate issued when you arrived

or

proof you have stopped working and meet the conditions for earlier permanent residence."

Now if you highlight the relevant parts , if you meet the requirements to apply for a permenent residence certificate, already have one & are asked to renew then show them this. Point out that "This is the law. EU rules take precedence over any EU national laws." or
" Esto es la ley. Las reglas de Unión Europea tienen prioridad sobre cualquier Unión Europea leyes nacionales."

Any problems , ask for the 'hojas de reclamación' & fill them in . Also make a compliant by clicking the 'you can call on our assistance service' link in the 3rd paragraph; which takes you here.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

[DrNCT]

I'd suggest this;

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... dex_en.htm

Extremely useful, many thanks.

I have asked the lawyers of the Your Europe team linked on that page to take a look and get back to me within the week, let's see what they say. I will report anything interesting back.

[alpujarran]

So is this here about the new green plastic card - assuming you've already sorted out registering your permanent residence rights? Or is it only for non EU/EEA/EFTA citizens?

The form itself is here

[El Cid]

Surely that is for non EU foreigners who are not family members of EU citizens?

Non EU family members of an EU. Citizen get the old residencia card.

Sid

[alpujarran]

Sid, I thought that must be the case but the legislation and the form don't obviously spell it out. I seem to have inadvertently ended up on a non-community page

Anyway, it might save someone else shelling out EUR 20,60 for something they can't have

[El Cid]

I would happily shell out €20.60 every five years for a decent ID card but the EU decided that we could no longer have that option.

I think I will try wearing an Afghan beany hat and apply for a proper ID card!

Sid

[Campo Steve]

Just spoken to our gestor who has been investigating our Certificado de Registrado de Extranjeros de la Union (the green A4 sheet). I understood from what has been said here that it no longer needs renewing.

She advises me that as it is our first registration then it does still need renewing.the replacement will be a smaller format and will be permanent. She also thinks that places like health centres have been told to check these things when people apply for health cards. Why Social Security didn't pick that up when they issued the Documento Acreditativo Del Derecho A Asistencia Sanitaria I don't know as they issued the form three months after the five years were up.

Oh well, off to the police station in Torre del Mar on Wednesday or Thursday. Could be fun. Anyone know their opening hours?