Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 16073
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
- Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
If the total in the two accounts is over €50000 then yes you do.
Sid
Sid
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 2984
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:31 pm
- Location: Sevilla
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
So under that no problem? No need to submit forms? Thanks by the way Cid.
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 16073
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
- Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
No problem but remember the 50k includes all bank accounts of any type and if they are in joint or multiple names it makes no difference.
Sid
Sid
-
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:59 pm
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
El Sid, your comments to us expats is " if you don't like it and obey the law of the land you can go home"
Well, we all can't go home just like that if we have property here, if we sell now we would be selling our houses cheaper than we bought them for, especially if we bought them years ago.
I appreciate your advice that you give on this site, but please remember we are all stuck and are worried about what is going to happen next.
I think what happen in Cyprus will not happen here yet, but with all the information the Tax office is getting from us, I am worried that they will tax us on money that it not held here in Spain, which we have already paid Tax on. As the Tax office have our account numbers, bic and iban do you think they could just deduct our money from overseas accounts, i.e UK
I understand why Spanish people hide their money away and don't trust the banks or Government, so my feelings are that we will be the ones hurt by the new laws and not the Spainish people.
Would it not be better to start a petition to protect our money now before something happens, do we not have human rights, privacy and data protection.
Its a sad world when only the normal tax paying person is going to be hit and not the rich because they know how to hide their money.
I feel it unfair the way this country has changed in the last 10 years, new laws daily, fines etc.
You are a clever person, so instead of us accepting all the *beep* that is thrown at us, why don't you come us with solutions and be a voice.
Well, we all can't go home just like that if we have property here, if we sell now we would be selling our houses cheaper than we bought them for, especially if we bought them years ago.
I appreciate your advice that you give on this site, but please remember we are all stuck and are worried about what is going to happen next.
I think what happen in Cyprus will not happen here yet, but with all the information the Tax office is getting from us, I am worried that they will tax us on money that it not held here in Spain, which we have already paid Tax on. As the Tax office have our account numbers, bic and iban do you think they could just deduct our money from overseas accounts, i.e UK
I understand why Spanish people hide their money away and don't trust the banks or Government, so my feelings are that we will be the ones hurt by the new laws and not the Spainish people.
Would it not be better to start a petition to protect our money now before something happens, do we not have human rights, privacy and data protection.
Its a sad world when only the normal tax paying person is going to be hit and not the rich because they know how to hide their money.
I feel it unfair the way this country has changed in the last 10 years, new laws daily, fines etc.
You are a clever person, so instead of us accepting all the *beep* that is thrown at us, why don't you come us with solutions and be a voice.
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
In the UK, nobody can charge you account without your authority, except the bank, through a setoff arrangement, the government (through legislation, as in Cyprus) and the courts. For the courts to issue an order to sequestrate your money, there needs to a judgement against you to show that there is a debt. This has to be on an individual basis. So I think the answer to this question is no.friendsunited wrote: I think what happen in Cyprus will not happen here yet, but with all the information the Tax office is getting from us, I am worried that they will tax us on money that it not held here in Spain, which we have already paid Tax on. As the Tax office have our account numbers, bic and iban do you think they could just deduct our money from overseas accounts, i.e UK
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 16073
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
- Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
So far I cannot see anything in this new law that can affect people who have been declaring and paying tax under the existing rules.friendsunited wrote:
You are a clever person, so instead of us accepting all the *beep* that is thrown at us, why don't you come us with solutions and be a voice.
If someone is going to end up paying more tax as a result it is because they have been evading tax in the past, knowingly or otherwise.
I accept that the government could increase existing taxes like wealth tax that could affect the issue or introduce new taxes based on the information that has been declared.
Under EU laws taxes are down to the country - apart from limits to VAT they can do pretty much as they like. France has just imposed a 75% tax rate and Cyprus is just taking your money off you as a so called tax.
I don't like it any more than anyone else but that's the way it is.
Essentially the only choice is to pay up or get out, however difficult or inconvenient that may be.
Sid
-
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:59 pm
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
Sid, thank you for your reply, I will be thinking of leaving this country and will not advise anyone to buy here anymore. The people running this country are out of their minds, we now pay more tax here and get nothing in return all we do is spend our own money with no benefits to us.
It is such a shame becasue I love Spain and the people, but it's no good if they are going to bleed us dry.
It is such a shame becasue I love Spain and the people, but it's no good if they are going to bleed us dry.
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
Why ? When you send it out can't you send it to one of your children , if you have any ?Or other family.Miro wrote:
I have already started getting my money out of Spain, but of course they will know exactly where it is, and clearly it isn't safe anywhere anyway.
Todos somos Lorca.
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 6199
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
- Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
I don't like any of this either but I do think Sid is right. Which ever country you go to will, in the end, make not much difference unless you choose some extremely poor and remote little country in Africa and run the risk of other problems. What we have today is not called 'Global' Economy for nothing. Unless you leave the planet I think it's getting increasingly difficult to hid assets. Rich people do this, very often, with the complicity of governments (as in huge companies paying no tax in the UK, etc.) The regular, normal tax payer is the easiest to clobber but I think the 720 is designed to seek out the people who do not pay. I hope. Spain may be a crazy country but so are at least two dozen more I could name without trying. Where are you going to go? I remember a colour supplement ran a story on a family who escaped to their idea of paradise for the sake of their children and for a better life. A few weeks later the place was invaded. Where was it? The Falklands. You can run, but you can't hide.
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
I'm afraid I don't see it that way. Those who have been avoiding / evading tax so far will not be filing a 720. They are risk takers - they will continue to take risks. I imagine the powers that be are well aware of this. Far easier to gather information on little, law-abiding fools and then devise a way to expropriate their wealth. It's very easy - look at Cyprus.El Cid wrote:So far I cannot see anything in this new law that can affect people who have been declaring and paying tax under the existing rules.
If someone is going to end up paying more tax as a result it is because they have been evading tax in the past, knowingly or otherwise.
No kids, and other family not really an option. Anyway, they could end up getting hammered for gift tax. One way or another, the barstewards will get you.gus-lopez wrote: Why ? When you send it out can't you send it to one of your children , if you have any ?Or other family.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
I always remember when I first moved here, and someone I met had started a small business. He told me that he went to the gestor with all his books, in order to submit his return. He asked the gestor "how much tax will I have to pay", and he was asked "how much do you want to pay". We all know thats fairly common. Advice to ignore assets outside the UK for tax purposes (including absence of advice) is (or was) the norm.Miro wrote:I'm afraid I don't see it that way. Those who have been avoiding / evading tax so far will not be filing a 720. They are risk takers - they will continue to take risks. I imagine the powers that be are well aware of this. Far easier to gather information on little, law-abiding fools and then devise a way to expropriate their wealth. It's very easy - look at Cyprus.El Cid wrote:So far I cannot see anything in this new law that can affect people who have been declaring and paying tax under the existing rules.
If someone is going to end up paying more tax as a result it is because they have been evading tax in the past, knowingly or otherwise.
I think its clear that as well as an information gathering exercise, as Sid says its also a tax gathering exercise from those people who haven't been paying the tax they should. At the end of the day, whichever way you look at it, and irrespective of what we do personally, the bottom line is ignoring overseas assets for tax purposes, or underdeclaring income just boils down to tax evasion, which is tacitly accepted by the state (or was).
For me, that sums up why we are where we are.
As for raising more taxes, once they have the information, well, that's always a possibility, and is the same in any other country. However, if they wanted to do that, they could do it without the information, by just reducing the allowances on wealth tax back the original €108,000 (or whatever it was) or lower.
I think it terms of the bigger picture, this declaration, plus the law limiting the amount for cash transactions, is probably the start of trying to cut down the black economy. I think there's a lot of other things they could and should do as well, but overall, I would say cutting back the black economy in any country must be the right thing to do. Then again, I would say that because (as far as I know), I have declared and paid all the tax I should. If everyone did the same then actually, we might be able to pay a bit less.
Don't forget, tax evasion is not only theft from that state, its theft from other tax payers.
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
That's a pretty fair response, CapnBilly.
Most of the EU countries that are suffering badly have always had a culture of black money - large scale tax evasion.
If you want to live in a society then you should be prepared to live by it's rules, as Sid points out.
I have always declared and paid my taxes and feel very strongly that those who try to evade paying their dues, or indeed those who claim benefits fraudulently, should be lined up and................
Most of the EU countries that are suffering badly have always had a culture of black money - large scale tax evasion.
If you want to live in a society then you should be prepared to live by it's rules, as Sid points out.
I have always declared and paid my taxes and feel very strongly that those who try to evade paying their dues, or indeed those who claim benefits fraudulently, should be lined up and................
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
I agree with both of you. I too have always done my best to abide by the rules and correctly declare everything, although as CapnBilly points out, it used to be nigh on impossible to do anything here without getting sucked into the unofficial rule of black money. I never liked it, never wanted a part of it, and would be glad to see it go - but it never will unless some far sighted government reduces taxes.
Agree in principle, but as we are seeing, the rules can change at the drop of a hat, and furthermore, those who set the rules, most definitely do NOT abide by them themselves, either on individual or institutional levels.gus wrote: If you want to live in a society then you should be prepared to live by it's rules, as Sid points out.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
- Devils Advocate
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 5597
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Sierra Tejeda and England
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
Problem is, all of the above posters were brought up in a society 100% the opposite of Spain. I've no doubt you all paid your dues as I have and still do. You always did what you thought to be right............as your parents did.
However Spain is a different thing altogether, the people in general are great but have a totally different take on what is right as opposed to us.
When we bought there, and before forum gurus were dishing out their well meaning advice, tax evasion,cash in hand and a host of other things we think of as bad was actively encouraged by the Spanish Authorities.....from the Police, to the townhall,to the gestors, to the lawyers................we were told it's the norm, no pasa nada...take your fat envelope to the notary and we'll write your house back to 20 pence too..............that's the way it's done amigo
OK things have gone t1ts up in a big way over there and now they are trying to shut the stable door 5 years after the horse bolted...............and the sad thing is it'll probably only be A. Commers who worry about it and tell the "new style" authorities about every dime they own...........Paco,Antonio,Pepe and Juan won't be..........you can bet your bottom dollar on that.
However Spain is a different thing altogether, the people in general are great but have a totally different take on what is right as opposed to us.
When we bought there, and before forum gurus were dishing out their well meaning advice, tax evasion,cash in hand and a host of other things we think of as bad was actively encouraged by the Spanish Authorities.....from the Police, to the townhall,to the gestors, to the lawyers................we were told it's the norm, no pasa nada...take your fat envelope to the notary and we'll write your house back to 20 pence too..............that's the way it's done amigo
OK things have gone t1ts up in a big way over there and now they are trying to shut the stable door 5 years after the horse bolted...............and the sad thing is it'll probably only be A. Commers who worry about it and tell the "new style" authorities about every dime they own...........Paco,Antonio,Pepe and Juan won't be..........you can bet your bottom dollar on that.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 6199
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
- Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
Agreed. If everyone paid proper taxes, and there was no 'black' money or IVA paying options, this country would be well placed. Off-thread, but coupled with some sort of incentive for functionarios to actually do some work (at the moment whether they do anything, or not, they get paid and if they work hard, they don't get paid more) might just make this country one of the best places of all in which to live. (I need a flying pig smiley here.)
-
- Resident
- Posts: 316
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:11 pm
- Location: Alpujarras
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
When I first arrived here, it was suggested that the Governmentt would only waste any money you give them - so what's the point?
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
DA, I think you are spot on with your analysis. What's more, there will be absolutely no sympathy from the Spanish for those who have tried to play by the rules. My bank manager has turned into a schizophrenic ar5ehole since I explained my concerns to him (as the reason why I want to transfer funds out of Spain), and blatantly lied to me then cheated me on transfer fees. (Once my funds are out of his grasp, I will lodge a formal compaint but expect to get nowhere, because frankly, nobody gives a ****).
I think your description of the difference in cultures also basically sums up why the whole euro thing was ill-conceived in the first place and why ultimately it will probably fail.
I think your description of the difference in cultures also basically sums up why the whole euro thing was ill-conceived in the first place and why ultimately it will probably fail.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
We live on a residential mobile home park in Alameda, but still own a property in England which our son lives in. I have no income but my husband has a private pension which is taxed in England. I asked the question earlier in this thread whether we were liable for tax in Spain which Sid quite rightly pointed out that if we were resident in Spain, then we were classed as tax residents. I got in touch with a Spansh gestor to help me declare my asset & he told that anyone who pays all their taxes in England even though resident in Spain are exempt from this law!!! I am now going bald from scratching my head! Lol
-
- Andalucia Guru
- Posts: 16073
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
- Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
I am afraid he is talking rubbish - but many of them do which is why so many people get into trougbe eventually.janieb wrote: . I got in touch with a Spansh gestor to help me declare my asset & he told that anyone who pays all their taxes in England even though resident in Spain are exempt from this law!!! I am now going bald from scratching my head! Lol
If you are tax resident in Spain you pay tax in Spain on a UK pension (except government pensions).
Irrespective of that, if you are tax resident you have to do the asset declaration. For example, someone with a UK government pension who is resident in Spain and who pays no tax in Spain still has to declare his assets.
Sid
Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration
Thanks Sid, I thought thats what you would say and I agree wholeheartedly!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests