estate agent fees

[morlandg]

We've asked a local estate agent to sell our property for us. She has sent us a contract to sign. It includes the following clauses:

1. Liquidation damages – In the case of the buyer backing out of the sale 50% of the deposit is paid
to the Company and 50% to the client, subject to the sales contract.

2. Half of the total commission being payable on exchange of contracts when the seller receives the
10% non refundable deposit. The other half being payable immediately upon the seller receiving
the remainder of the purchase money on completion at the notary.

I understood that in the event of the buyer pulling out then the seller retained the whole of the 10% deposit paid. Is that not correct?
As far as No.2 goes I feel like asking if they would like to add the following to the end of the clause:
...and before the client leaves the notary office.

There is a further clause:
3. If there is no contract and the 10% deposit is not paid before going to the notary and the seller
subsequently withdraws from the sale the seller is to pay xxxxx Properties a fee of 1,000 euros
to cover their time, publicity and petrol in securing a buyer.
No comment.

[Lyric]

I don't think I would be signing that.
What is their fee ?
I believe, but do not know, that the agent I want to use to sell my property wants 6% including IVA.
I won't be paying that either.

[morlandg]

Lyric
Sorry - I should have said that their commission is 5% (+IVA @21%) of the agreed final sale price. That happens to be 50% of the 10% deposit paid by the buyer!! Bit of a coincidence what?
Graham

[katy]

VIVA agency certainly used to have in the contract that they would keep 50% of the initial deposit to take the house off the market if the buyer dropped out.

More important than fee (in my opinion) is how professional the Agent is. There are so many Agents around in Andalucia I wouldn't like to guess the number but I bet it goes over the 1000s. Most are incompetent.

[Laslomas]

My agent in Nerja had a contract entitling them to 50% of the 1% 'holding deposit' if the sale did not progress due to the buyer pulling out. This was money taken to keep the property off the market whilst the buyer sorted out their finances and their lawyer could check legal issues and usually was for a set time 14 days, I think it was. So that is the same as Katy mentioned with VIVA. If the full 10% deposit was paid and then the buyer pulled out I seem to remember there was something to be paid to the Agency to cover the agency costs to date, but can't remember fully. No way was it 50% though.
The contract also included that the Agent would get half of their fee when the 10% was paid.

My agent didn't keep their side of the contract with my sale though. They took 1% from a prospective purchaser and put it into their holding account and took the property off the market. The purchasers messed about for almost 3 months, insisting all the time that they were going to be able to complete the sale. Finally they pulled out and the agent told me that they returned the deposit!?!?!! Of course I kicked up a stink, but nothing was ever paid over to me. I had lost the whole summer months when I had hoped to be able to sell the property before the winter season. I changed agent, but it was another year before the sale went through. Good Luck.

[Unicorn]

I would put a line through quite a lot of that contract of theirs! Commission should be paid upon completion of the sale.
Make sure you have a time clause as well, very clearly stated.

My advice is to go to another agent and say you want a better deal than that. Or why not try the internet first as I think it is most people's way of searching, put a sign up with a website address?

In the good times I sold a flat, the buyer wanted a bit of a discount so I came down a bit and the agent halved their commission.

[zanuck]

Trying to think back when 10 years ago against our better instincts we had to buy via Interealty (who went into bankruptcy soon after completion) I think we as buyers paid an estate agent fee of 5%, with a 10% deposit of the purchase price that was non-refundable if we (buyers) pulled out.

Goodness knows what the seller paid, plus of course black money in those days as part of the purchase price that our lawyer stated in writing wouldn't be a problem in the future when we sold, to recoup

Goodness, were we naïve?

Now thinking about selling and buying again, the fees horrify us.

OH worked for an estate agent in the UK until early this year, (for about the last 20 years overall) typical agents fees for selling varied by negotiation between 1% and 2% - no fees for buyers, whether they completed the sale or not.

Really looking forward to selling (ok trying to sell) and buying again in Andalucía

[scotty]

Was talking to an agent down my end of the coast. I suggested to enhance his business that he use the Irish model. 1% +vat. He was giving it serious consideration.

[Nimrod]

1-2% is standard in UK,£1m houses where I live,3 bed terrace, would yield 10 grand,not bad when houses sell in 3 weeks.
When we sold our last house I negotiated 3/4 % and a percentage of any increase over asking price.

[zanuck]

Never heard of anywhere else apart from Spain where the buyer and the seller both pay the estate agent.

Or as letter writers to the Daily Telegraph allegedly say:

"I am alone in thinking that this is normal?"

[chrissiehope]

We will soon have to be sorting out an estate agent in Spain - I know it's a bit of a minefield, and I'm not looking forward to it

Does anyone know of a reputable agent (if such an animal exists ) who covers inland ? If I were there full time, I would use someone like Rightmove, but we're going to need someone 'on the ground' to hold keys & show people around, extolling the casa's virtues etc

[Aunty Val]

Why not trying to sell it privately - the market is getting better and rather than give an agent so much money, discount the price of your house by the same amount and make it even more attractive.

You could always try some of these companies that help you sell your home in Spain. I know I can't mention any names but sometimes they can be a bit more "creative" than your standard estate agent.

[infoseeker]

Zanuck
Recently I read that some UK agents are charging a " complementary" fee to the buyer, so they receive money from both buyer and seller,
For anyone selling in Spain after paying plus valia, cgt, agents fees etc, buying a house in the UK will be even more expensive, with this fee, plus stamp duty, solicitors.
In addition, when you buy a house in the UK, it doesn't come furnished, with lots of extras as it does here.

[katy]

I don't get your logic...how can buying a house in the UK be more expensive. Who wan'ts a house load of of someone else's crap choice of furniture anyway most in the UK have their own. Different countries, different procedure. We paid 4% duty here! A lot less than Spain and statistically we have seen the price increase well over 5 thousand pound per month since we moved in. Fortunately the house came empty

[infoseeker]

I don't get your logic...how can buying a house in the UK be more expensive. Who wan'ts a house load of of someone else's crap choice of furniture anyway most in the UK have their own. Different countries, different procedure.

I'm not saying buying in the Uk is more expensive than in Spain, I'm saying it will be more expensive than it was if agents charge buyers fees. Having already shelled out a cartload of money selling in Spain, another additional fee when buying in the UK is not welcome.
Every house I've seen advertised in Spain has been furnished plus white goods, garden furniture etc.
I imagine it's too expensive to take it all back, plus risk of damage.
You'd be lucky if you got a light bulb when you buy in the UK.

[katy]

A lot of places in Spain you are lucky if they leave the kitchen cupboards actually I think there is some sort of law in the UK they have to leave light bulbs. All we have ever got in Spanish houses is junk to get shot of.

[infoseeker]

Surely you can say if you don't want it furnished.
Most people welcome the fact that they haven't got to shell out for loads of furniture and white goods.
They can always replace it gradually, if it's not quite their taste.
Speaking for myself, the furniture and white goods including in the sale of my house are in excellent condition and cared for.

[chrissiehope]

infoseeker - have sent you a pm

[zanuck]

Infoseeker
Katy saw your post to me before I did and has covered most of the points already.

Recently I read that some UK agents are charging a " complementary" fee to the buyer, so they receive money from both buyer and seller,

Until earlier this year, my wife had spent about the previous twenty years working for estate agents in the UK both in rental and sales offices; she keeps in contact with an old colleague and both she and my wife have never heard of an agent charging the buyer a fee.

I suspect that UK based buyers would look in horror if such a suggestion was made and then tell the agent what to do with the fee; your source must have been particularly unlucky to find agents that do so or of course the writer was an agent who thought "I know, I've got a great idea, let's charge the buyer a fee too and if we get it into the papers, this will be picked up and turned into a reality".

In our experience it is not normal practice in the UK to sell a house furnished - ok, maybe some items get included and noted on the contract e.g. white goods, but generally you take ownership with "vacant possession".

In Spain we quite often see adverts saying that the house is being sold furnished and presume that this is because the owner is repatriating to their country of origin and they can't be bothered to clear the house.

Buying furnished could be helpful to a first time buyer, there are flats on the coast near us that haven't sold but are now advertised on a huge hoarding as "only €113.000,00 and now furnished".

When we move to our next house in Spain we have furniture in our present house to take with us.

When we moved in ten years ago, the only things here were light bulbs - two I think; even the toilet roll holder had been removed by the English seller.

[katy]

Most people in the UK leave white goods because they are integrated into the fitted units. I have heard of Brits being gobsmacked to find the sellers in Spain have taken all the kitchen units ensure that these included items are written into the contract.

Most stuff we have had left in houses bought in Spain we would rather have not,especially the pan of curry in the oven it is useful in the case of holiday apartments though to have small items left whilst you get organised.