Spanish Residency
Spanish Residency
Hello folks,
Does one have to have Spanish Residency for living in Spain as an EU citizen? What is it mandatory for if anything? And what are the negatives of having residency (if any).
Does one have to have Spanish Residency for living in Spain as an EU citizen? What is it mandatory for if anything? And what are the negatives of having residency (if any).
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Re: Spanish Residency
There are two considerations.
Anyone can move freely within the EU, but you are not necessarily allowed to stay continuously for more than 90 days. If you do, you are obliged to register with the national police and have your name entered on the list of EU foreigners who are allowed to stay more than 90 days. You will either have to have a "proper" job or be able to prove that you have sufficient income and also health insurance (or reciprocal cover from the UK as a state pensioner or dependant of one).
When you have done this you are given a green form or card giving details of your registration. Contrary to what you may read elsewhere, this procedure does not make you a resident - it merely gives you the right to stay for more than 90 days. That said, there are many cases where people stay for more than 90 days with no intention of staying permanently and they usually don't bother to register because there are no advantages by doing so. If you intend to stay permanently and become a resident then it is important that you do sign onto the register.
The second consideration is tax (fiscal) residency and this is the only legal form of residency. If you spend more than 183 days (not necessarily consecutively in Spain in one calendar year you are deemed to be fiscally resident and will have to make an annual tax declaration of all your worldwide income and pay income tax on it if it exceeds the basic allowances. This is not an option - you are either a tax resident or you are not.
You ask what are the negatives of having residency. The only one I can think of is that under certain circumstances, you might pay more tax than you would in the UK, but there can be significant advantages with regard to capital gains tax and inheritance tax.
Sid
Anyone can move freely within the EU, but you are not necessarily allowed to stay continuously for more than 90 days. If you do, you are obliged to register with the national police and have your name entered on the list of EU foreigners who are allowed to stay more than 90 days. You will either have to have a "proper" job or be able to prove that you have sufficient income and also health insurance (or reciprocal cover from the UK as a state pensioner or dependant of one).
When you have done this you are given a green form or card giving details of your registration. Contrary to what you may read elsewhere, this procedure does not make you a resident - it merely gives you the right to stay for more than 90 days. That said, there are many cases where people stay for more than 90 days with no intention of staying permanently and they usually don't bother to register because there are no advantages by doing so. If you intend to stay permanently and become a resident then it is important that you do sign onto the register.
The second consideration is tax (fiscal) residency and this is the only legal form of residency. If you spend more than 183 days (not necessarily consecutively in Spain in one calendar year you are deemed to be fiscally resident and will have to make an annual tax declaration of all your worldwide income and pay income tax on it if it exceeds the basic allowances. This is not an option - you are either a tax resident or you are not.
You ask what are the negatives of having residency. The only one I can think of is that under certain circumstances, you might pay more tax than you would in the UK, but there can be significant advantages with regard to capital gains tax and inheritance tax.
Sid
Re: Spanish Residency
Thank you Sid , for a good explanation. Appreciated
Re: Spanish Residency
Isn't the big advantage of this is that you get issued with a NIE number?El Cid wrote:There are two considerations.
Anyone can move freely within the EU, but you are not necessarily allowed to stay continuously for more than 90 days. If you do, you are obliged to register with the national police and have your name entered on the list of EU foreigners who are allowed to stay more than 90 days.
Sid
If you want to buy something such as a car, mobile phone amongst many other items you will be asked for your NIE number.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris
Re: Spanish Residency
I already have my NIE number but no residency or anything else
Re: Spanish Residency
How did you get a NIE number without signing onto the register of foreigners?
Or am I getting totally confused as that is what I did more than 10 years ago when I first arrived in Spain.
Cheers
Gerry
Or am I getting totally confused as that is what I did more than 10 years ago when I first arrived in Spain.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris
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Re: Spanish Residency
You can still apply for an NIE number without signing onto the foreigners register.
Sid
Sid
Re: Spanish Residency
How do you get a NIE number without signing onto the foreigners register?
Perhaps I didn't sign on, if I didn't am I an illegal immigrant
Cheers
Gerry
Perhaps I didn't sign on, if I didn't am I an illegal immigrant
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris
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Re: Spanish Residency
Non residents can get an NIE number for all kinds of reasons - I did to buy a holiday home, for example, and I didn't sign on the foreigners' register until 4 years later. A friend of ours who is non resident had to get one in order to be able to accept inheritance of a house which was bequeathed to her.
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Re: Spanish Residency
You go to the Police just as you would to sign on the register but you use a different form - EX15 instead of EX18gerryh wrote:How do you get a NIE number without signing onto the foreigners register?
Perhaps I didn't sign on, if I didn't am I an illegal immigrant
Cheers
Gerry
http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es/Mod ... icados.pdf
Sid
Re: Spanish Residency
Wasn't aware there were 2 forms.
I wonder which one I signed over 10 years ago?
Does it matter?
I'm certainly a fiscal resident, I think. At least I hand over large wadges of cash twice a year to the tax authorities.
Cheers
Gerry
I wonder which one I signed over 10 years ago?
Does it matter?
I'm certainly a fiscal resident, I think. At least I hand over large wadges of cash twice a year to the tax authorities.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris
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Re: Spanish Residency
gerryh wrote: I'm certainly a fiscal resident, I think. At least I hand over large wadges of cash twice a year to the tax authorities.
Cheers
Gerry
I would love to have to hand over large wadges of cash.
By the way what are wadges???
Gerry
Re: Spanish Residency
The last 2+ weeks of continuous bulldozing has addled my brain.GerryinCajiz wrote:
By the way what are wadges???
I meant wodges.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris
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Re: Spanish Residency
What's the exchange rate for wadges to wodges?
Sid
Sid
Re: Spanish Residency
Really Gerry! How large?
Re: Spanish Residency
I see, it's "get at Gerry day"
Cheers
Gerry
The original Gerry, beware of all impostors.
Cheers
Gerry
The original Gerry, beware of all impostors.
Gerry Harris
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Re: Spanish Residency
I've had an nie since 1988, never been resident, paid tax here or anything else, I have one though !gerryh wrote:How did you get a NIE number without signing onto the register of foreigners?
Or am I getting totally confused as that is what I did more than 10 years ago when I first arrived in Spain.
Cheers
Gerry
Re: Spanish Residency
Many thanks to El Cid for his comprehensive and detailed post in this thread. Bearing in mind that I am fairly new to all this and so am highly likely to be wrong but am very keen to learn, I have a couple of follow-up questions ....
1) I understood there to be two types of residency so your post saying this is not legally the case is interesting. I thought that if one broke the "90 day rule" then one was supposed to register as a "Resident" whereas if one broke the "183 day rule" then one was supposed to register as "Tax Resident". You are saying that there is only one definition of resident, namely the second one so I am wondering what is the official title one is given if one registers in the first case ?
2) Am I right in thinking that before one can register in either of the two cases one must supply evidence of healthcare provision ?
3) Am I right in thinking that before one can register in either of the two cases one must supply evidence of income or at least a decent capital balance to prove one is self-sufficient ?
4) Finally, I have no intention at all of becoming resident for tax purposes (the only type of residency according to what you say) so will rigidly adhere to the "183 day rule". At the moment I intend to rigidly adhere to the "90 day rule" as well but just wondered whether there was any reason whatsoever why anyone would register to stay for more than 90 days whilst still ensuring they do not breach the "183 day rule" ? The way I see it, I would prefer the Spanish Government to have as little information about me as possible so would rather simply leave the country before day 89 and return the day after. Am I missing any benefits of this first type of registration which would compensate me for the added disclosure and healthcare costs when compared to simply leaving and returning the next day ?
Many thanks in advance,
Des
1) I understood there to be two types of residency so your post saying this is not legally the case is interesting. I thought that if one broke the "90 day rule" then one was supposed to register as a "Resident" whereas if one broke the "183 day rule" then one was supposed to register as "Tax Resident". You are saying that there is only one definition of resident, namely the second one so I am wondering what is the official title one is given if one registers in the first case ?
2) Am I right in thinking that before one can register in either of the two cases one must supply evidence of healthcare provision ?
3) Am I right in thinking that before one can register in either of the two cases one must supply evidence of income or at least a decent capital balance to prove one is self-sufficient ?
4) Finally, I have no intention at all of becoming resident for tax purposes (the only type of residency according to what you say) so will rigidly adhere to the "183 day rule". At the moment I intend to rigidly adhere to the "90 day rule" as well but just wondered whether there was any reason whatsoever why anyone would register to stay for more than 90 days whilst still ensuring they do not breach the "183 day rule" ? The way I see it, I would prefer the Spanish Government to have as little information about me as possible so would rather simply leave the country before day 89 and return the day after. Am I missing any benefits of this first type of registration which would compensate me for the added disclosure and healthcare costs when compared to simply leaving and returning the next day ?
Many thanks in advance,
Des
- chrissiehope
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Re: Spanish Residency
One thing to bear in mind if you own, rather than rent, in Spain - the taxman will still want his cut, in the form of the Non-Resident Imputed tax (otherwise known as the Renta)
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Inside of a dog it's too dark to read (Groucho Marx)
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Re: Spanish Residency
Deswalker, I will try to answer your questions.
The 90 day rule does give rise to some confusion about it making you a resident. If you look at the exact wording of the relevant law, signing on the register allows you the right to "stay" for more than 90 days "or" eventually reside in Spain.
The wording on the certificate says " certificate of registration as a citizen of the EU". It goes on to say that this proves that you have registered on the register of foreigners as an EU resident.
It is not strictly mandatory to register as a tax resident, although there is a form that allows you to do so. Once you submit your first tax declaration you will be on the system until such time as you advise the tax office to the contrary.
You only have to provide proof of income and health cover as part of the registration process. As I said, there is no formal registration process for becoming a tax resident.
It is perfectly possible to be tax resident and not qualify to register on the foreigners list. Similarly, it is possible to be on the foreigners list and not be tax resident.
Sid
The 90 day rule does give rise to some confusion about it making you a resident. If you look at the exact wording of the relevant law, signing on the register allows you the right to "stay" for more than 90 days "or" eventually reside in Spain.
The wording on the certificate says " certificate of registration as a citizen of the EU". It goes on to say that this proves that you have registered on the register of foreigners as an EU resident.
It is not strictly mandatory to register as a tax resident, although there is a form that allows you to do so. Once you submit your first tax declaration you will be on the system until such time as you advise the tax office to the contrary.
You only have to provide proof of income and health cover as part of the registration process. As I said, there is no formal registration process for becoming a tax resident.
It is perfectly possible to be tax resident and not qualify to register on the foreigners list. Similarly, it is possible to be on the foreigners list and not be tax resident.
Sid
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