Declaring a gift

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby olive » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:47 pm

Not interested in small amounts?

I had a letter from Spanish tax office re 2016 tax year. Two discrepancies. Under declaration of income ( easily answered as my pension provider pays January in December) . Second was failure to declare £2.40 of interest on a UK building society account I had forgotten I had.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby El Cid » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:54 pm

I wonder if they would have bothered if it was just the interest. Probably it was the pension discrepancy that got flagged.

What was the fine?

Sid

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby olive » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:01 pm

There wasn't a fine.

I took the papers down to our gestor (rightly or wrongly we pay him to do our returns). He said normally I charge walk ins 100 euros to process these but as you are a customer it is free.

He dealt with tax office. As there wasn't an over payment of my pension (i.e. I had declared correctly) there was just the matter of tax owing on the sum of £2.40 at a guess 70 cents. I guess common sense prevailed and they went chasing bigger fish

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby katy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:33 pm

You may be just unlucky. Where did they get the info from? Authorities cannot just access your bank accounts without a good reason.
Here is a bit from a letter I have.


If they have reason to request the information, then apparently they will. There would have to be some reason for them to suspect tax avoidance, it would not be a matter of routine. –
So, according to your reading of the agreement, countries will specifically have to request the records from other countries for particular people, they will not automatically get blanket downloads of foreign bank account information
Yes, that is certainly my understanding. Tax authorities would be required to present reasons for suspecting avoidance. A country like Australia or Canada will have tens of thousands of foreign nationals resident for tax purposes at any given time. It would be entirely impractical to inspect all of the associated data. There are also security and privacy issues involved in a blanket transfer of data.

PS. from personal experience Spanish tax authorities are not so good. :silent:

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby El Cid » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:47 pm

They get it direct from HMRC. They are doing a lot of checks at the moment on 2016 declarations from foreign residents.

I recently had a notification querying my 2016 declaration. I was about the discount applied to annuities. It was quickly resolved, but they included details of all my pensions which had come from HMRC.

Sid

reamer1960
Tourist
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 pm
Location: spain

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby reamer1960 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:55 pm

a person would have to a compleat idiot not to declare were there is a paper trail ,given the CRS and exchange of information ,i have no issue in paying 200 0r 300 euros on a gift, it is my choice to live in spain and i have the option to leave if i am not suited to spain's tax laws,also my gift tax money may help pay for a front line worker .

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby katy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:06 pm

More chance of it going in some corrupt Politicians pocket.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby elusive » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:07 pm

katy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:33 pm You may be just unlucky. Where did they get the info from? Authorities cannot just access your bank accounts without a good reason.
Here is a bit from a letter I have.


If they have reason to request the information, then apparently they will. There would have to be some reason for them to suspect tax avoidance, it would not be a matter of routine. –
So, according to your reading of the agreement, countries will specifically have to request the records from other countries for particular people, they will not automatically get blanket downloads of foreign bank account information
Yes, that is certainly my understanding. Tax authorities would be required to present reasons for suspecting avoidance. A country like Australia or Canada will have tens of thousands of foreign nationals resident for tax purposes at any given time. It would be entirely impractical to inspect all of the associated data. There are also security and privacy issues involved in a blanket transfer of data.

PS. from personal experience Spanish tax authorities are not so good. :silent:
Exchange of information act that came in around 2016. Countries that are apart of the agreement can access each other's records
Last edited by elusive on Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby katy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:10 pm

Yes but as I copied below there has to be some reason for it Where tax evasion is suspected There has to be a formal request and decision. Asking for information for a few euro is a bit of waste of man (or woman) power.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby elusive » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:11 pm

reamer1960 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:55 pm a person would have to a compleat idiot not to declare were there is a paper trail ,given the CRS and exchange of information ,i have no issue in paying 200 0r 300 euros on a gift, it is my choice to live in spain and i have the option to leave if i am not suited to spain's tax laws,also my gift tax money may help pay for a front line worker .
Good for you.
Its a shame Juan carlos doesnt have that attitude. The more money they have the more gready they become

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby elusive » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:17 pm

The way it works from what ive read (if thats correct who knows) is that hmrc voluntarily send x amount of accounts or all accounts over to hacienda and hacienda do what they like with them. They prob hand pick x amount to check against spanish tax returns or not if they havnt been filing any. Theres no request as such from hacienda. But even if there was i dont see why there has to be any evidence of suspicion. Hacienda just wants to check that mr smith is declaring what he should be in spain interms of overseas accounts which otherwise they wouldnt know about.

reamer1960
Tourist
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 pm
Location: spain

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby reamer1960 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:37 pm

katy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:06 pm More chance of it going in some corrupt Politicians pocket.
but without interest and penalties .

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby katy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:44 pm

You may not see there should be evidence but there is. There are other laws to data protection and privacy. It is not true that reams of people's data is transfered like that. bar-room myth.

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby markwilding » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:19 pm

I had to fill out various forms so as not to be taxed at source in the UK with things like interest and rental payments. It quite clearly said on the forms that information is exchanged between countries in the scheme.
Many enquiries come years later, We had and enquiry from Hacienda asking why my wife had not paid tax on UK rental income in around 2014 earlier this year. It turned out that the Gestor had included it with my return that year. Hacienda were OK with that but they still checked.

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5879
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby Wicksey » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:07 pm

The UK tax year is different to that in Spain so the figures will not match exactly for a year. I guess it would give them an idea of the type of income you have, though, such as rental income or pensions.

reamer1960
Tourist
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 pm
Location: spain

Re: Declaring a gift

Postby reamer1960 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:41 am

the plot thickens ,my representative has been to the tax office this morning ,because the gift is gifted from a non resident it is a central government tax office competency and not a regional one .......and they gave her a phone number to contract the madrid central tax office for further instruction.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests