Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby AkoAko » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:41 pm

Im not so concerned about the ones claiming UK benefits while living here as i am the ones that buy a tiny a cortigo and do everything under the radar , no architect plans , town hall licenses or permissions , spend 20 years building it into a large property with swimming pool, garages etc and not paying any IBI at all then boast on Facebook about how proud they are of what they have achieved . Its a kick in the teeth for the majority of us who paid artilect , paid for permits and taxes and have been paying hundreds of euros a year for IBI , they might as well tell us outright what fools we are . What people fiddle from the UK will soon catch up with them but the fiddlers here are safe because of apathy and the speed the the authorities work at .

Pamela1
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Pamela1 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:23 pm

I think much of that was squashed with the Cadastral amnesty which was started in 2013 and went on through to 2016 and no one was safe,they did many inspections and took Ariel shots of all properties and those which were found to have extensions, pools or even minor alterations were contacted. The fine under the amnesty was 60 euros ( usually 6,000) and their annual IBI was increased accordingly, it was also back dated to cover the past 4 yrs.It wasn't just the tiny cortijo, it was every property, many Spanish people build on and altered their town houses, village houses over many years.The Spanish would probably think you were fools for doing everything by the book but things have changed and at least you will have done the right thing from the start and the kick in the teeth will be for those who didn't unless they are lucky enough to sell without all the problems others have encountered.

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby AkoAko » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:21 am

The follow up for the Ariel photos are a joke here . Four years ago someone from the town hall come out to our home in the hills to hand deliver a letter from the Town Hall stating we have something showing on our property which isn't registered on the Catastral , they were correct , the Ariel photo had shown the concrete top to an underground water tank for collecting rain water . We went to the town hall and were told that they required full sets of drawings of our land showing the underground tank and a certificate of antiquity at a total cost of around 400 euros . When we suggested filing in the tank they told us made no difference the walls were still there underground so was still a structure and so had to be included in our IBI so we had no option but to comply with everything . A neighbor who for 20 years has built up their tiny cortigo and who doesn't pay any IBI was also caught at the same time however as they were buying the ruin next door , the other half of their semi detached property they got their Lawyer to go in to the town hall and explain that it would be better to wait until the property's are both in his clients name then do whatever's necessary . In the years since then the next door ruin has also been totally renovated and ready to live in , again without any permissions or license's , as for the town hall , nothings happened at all so now they dont pay any IBI on 2 properties while we wait to be charged 4 years back tax on our underground tank .

Pamela1
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:09 pm

Maybe this is for a different thread, Sid many move it if he comes along :) ..Did you pay the 60 euro fine?

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby katy » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:21 am

Was fake news anyway. Spain has denied the 500 expats to be booted out story.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... h-migrants

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7777
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby markwilding » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm

Yes it was sensationalist to say that 500 will be deported. Anyway, most people know that there is a legal process to deportation, which takes a lengthy period of time so it's important to read beyond the headline especially one from the Express, which is known to print plenty of untruths regarding the EU, The article goes on to say that thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”. It still seems there is a rush to beat the 90 day deadline so as to avoid breaking the rules. If UK citizens don't stay longer, they risk a fine or a temporary ban to re-enter the EU .

It may well be that Spain will be accommodating, should someone own a house here but a weekend trip to Paris or Amsterdam might have to be cancelled. There might be some sort agreement but I would imagine that Spain would want the same rights for their citizens or even will want its citizens to have the right to work in the UK, I've often wondered whether the the UK might form some sort of freedom of movement agreement with some of the richer countries in the EU, which might be mutually beneficial to both countries.

It might also be that if residence can be proven even without registering prior to the deadline, then that will be accepted. However, that in itself will bring about more problems for those living and maybe even earning in Spain under the radar.
Last edited by markwilding on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:46 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:31 pm

A man named Shaun Cromber who admitted to voting for Brexit was in disbelief that such a thing as leaving the EU would prevent him from living on the continent.

Speaking at Malaga airport to Global 24/7 News a tearful Cromber said: “Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK.”

https://www.indy100.com/news/brexit-spa ... u-b1823499


At least he won't become an illegal expat

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby katy » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:45 pm

A site i look at has comments. Some say he doesn't exists on social media although I suppose that's possible. Many say never heard of the source Global 247. and this one

danjac 2 days ago [–]

It's good for clicks - the thick-as-*beep* expat Leave voter sawing the branch underneath themselves. In reality most Brits in Europe did not vote Leave, but of course the media have to two-sides everything for "balance".

Just checked, Global 247, Benidorm.
https://whois.domaintools.com/global247news.com

Unicorn
Resident
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Estepona

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Unicorn » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:25 pm

If people keep referring to 'Europe' what continent does UK belong to?

It seems EU and Europe are interchangeable, and they are not the same thing.

Rather like people confusing the CJEU and ECHR.

There is the possibility that Shaun Cromber not being visible because he has been under the wire and chose to be invisible? And who could imagine somebody using a false name, it could be a first! If he doesn't exist his persona is certainly representative of a cohort of British migrants in Spain.

Pamela1
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:15 pm

Is it the forms that could have put some people off? I personally wouldnt know what anyone had to do in order to register to stay..Are the forms in English also? I do know quite a number of people who are usless when it comes to forms and anything official, not everyone is able to cope and they get themselves worked up, harder as they get older..For some others could it be the fact that they have to take out private health insurance and the monthly premiums have stalled them, not all brits abroad are wealthy and some live hand to mouth...It has me baffled as to why some people have found themselves in such a mess as to where they are resident and some people seem to have left themselves wide open to not even having anywhere to live when they return.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby elusive » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:32 pm

The forms are pretty basic. Name address and you just tick the box for the residency you want. Theres loads of info on the net and screen shots showing how to fill them in. Also pre summer 2014 you could get an S1 even if you were under retirement age that would cover you for upto 2 years on the spanish NHS. So there was no need to pay for health insurance if you came before then inorder to get residencia. Gestors are dirt cheap compaired to the equivalent in the U.K so its very easy to pay someone to do it for you.

There maybe some who just got lost along the way. But imo theres far to many who intentionally had no intention to do things by the book.because they couldnt be bothered or the laws dont apply to me. Ifs not as if people werent/arent aware of the rules. Theres enough discussion about it in bars,papers etc.it seems to be more of a competition to some to see how many laws they can evade from what i see and hear
Last edited by elusive on Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:44 pm

The whole Schengen 90 day rule in not a new phenomenon. Here is a thread from 2011 with non EU citizens wanting to overstay

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/ ... -them-here

All that has changed is that British citizens are now non EU. There are many who don't even get into the EU for a holiday without a visa that don't speak English or Spanish and they manage to make themselves legal. I lived in Asia and didn't speak the local language but figured out the visa system (it makes Spain look easy).

Ultimately I left Asia, because of amongst other things the visa system. 100s of countries have this situation it is just now the UK citizens will have to adjust or not come at all.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby katy » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:50 pm

Any official figures of how many Brits have not registered? If not there may be some making assumptions. There seems to be a lot selling up by the amount of properties advertised. Viva has thousands. If you have an allergy to Brits keep out of their awful bars and don’t live within a half hour of the coast, then you can (almost) be the only guiri in the village.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby El Cid » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:19 pm

Very difficult to get a figure as by definition they are under the radar.

Sid

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5879
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Wicksey » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:50 am

elusive wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:32 pm The forms are pretty basic. Name address and you just tick the box for the residency you want. Theres loads of info on the net and screen shots showing how to fill them in. Also pre summer 2014 you could get an S1 even if you were under retirement age that would cover you for upto 2 years on the spanish NHS. So there was no need to pay for health insurance if you came before then inorder to get residencia. Gestors are dirt cheap compaired to the equivalent in the U.K so its very easy to pay someone to do it for you.

There maybe some who just got lost along the way. But imo theres far to many who intentionally had no intention to do things by the book.because they couldnt be bothered or the laws dont apply to me. Ifs not as if people werent/arent aware of the rules. Theres enough discussion about it in bars,papers etc.it seems to be more of a competition to some to see how many laws they can evade from what i see and hear
That's very true elusive. If you couldn't cope doing it yourself then there's gestors here to help. When we first applied when we first came here we used ours and it didn't cost much. In those days I don't remember having to prove income and we didn't have any health cover. More recently I managed to change to the TIE with help from others on here, ditto driving licence. When we lived in France they don't have the gestors there so we did it all by ourselves and even with French bureaucracy, I don't remember it being too difficult to get our residency there.

Of course this applies to Brits living in/visiting all EU countries but it always seems to be just about the Brits in Spain. Spain can't really have their own rules about the 90 days as many winter visitors come in via France, therefore the 90 days will start when they arrive there and finish when they leave at the channel ports.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:45 am

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2016/oc ... tinuously/

Estimates of overstayed from 2016

"It is widely recognised that people entering the EU from the so-called "White List (visa-free) of countries often overstay - for years or for ever. Some Commission estimates suggest that there are as many as 4 million "over-stayers" in the EU."

Much like the millions of illegals in the USA they will also have the problem that they can never leave the EU, a very precarious existence

User avatar
dxf
Resident
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Chiclana Cadiz
Contact:

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby dxf » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:04 pm

Hola

Olive Press headline
OVERSTAYERS need not worry - Spain is taking a pragmatic approach

Full story here https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news ... -day-rule/

Davexf

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby El Cid » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:36 pm

This seems to be behind a paywall now

Why anyone would pay €60/yr to read it is beyond me!

Sid

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby katy » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:31 pm

This in the DM today. Dozens of brits refused entry in Alicante.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Spain.html

User avatar
spanish_lad
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6218
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Alhaurin el Grande since 99, cartama campo since 2022

Re: Thousands of British expats in Spain remain “exposed and unprotected”

Postby spanish_lad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:49 pm

El Cid wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:36 pm This seems to be behind a paywall now

Why anyone would pay €60/yr to read it is beyond me!

Sid

The printed version, that probably costs them thousands per week to produce.. is free ? and they want people to pay to look at it online? are they on drugs?? :wtf: :wtf:
Alhaurin el Grande since 99, working at the airport since 2011.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests