UK emigration

[safeashouses]

My OH used to say that the population explosion could be solved by giving out free TVs.

[Cassandra]

Of course there's nothing wrong with sending money home, it's often the main reason for going to the UK to work, I was just anticipating one of the immigrant haters (rich considering they're immigrants here ) moaning about how they send all their money home and don't spend it in Britain.

[Lavanda]

I'm not sure I agree, Katy, that leaving a country because it has a bad government is a weak reason. I'm also not sure what you mean by the UK being a democracy. It has a form of democracy (not quite the same thing) and a very flawed, biased and suspect form at that. All too often the UK has a government with less than 50% of, to use an Americanism '... the popular vote ...' Explain, exactly how that's democracy. It is not. Only a form of democracy. The Greeks would be turning en masse in their resting places if they could see the mess we have made of their fine concept.

[Lavanda]

... as for claiming benefits ...

As a 35 year old I went back to University as a mature student to update my skills and study for my degree. I had 15 years of tax and contributions 'in the pot'. I worked throughout my time at Uni but took time out to write my degree thesis during my second year summer holiday. On graduating I was without work and for the first time in my life went to 'sign on'. I was told I was not entitled to anything AT ALL as I had not paid contributions for the previous year. I explained that I had been studying. 'Tough' was the response. I told them that I had gained a 1st Class Hons and had also been awarded 98% for my thesis - the highest grade my Uni thad ever awarded anyone. 'Too bad' was the response. I asked why others could claim - others who had nothing 'in the pot' at all. 'Can't discuss anyone else's case with you' I was told.

Luckily I got a job within two weeks and continued to be employed full-time until I left the UK. Benefits? I just, literally, don't get it! Not only that but I don't know ANYONE on benefits. I think it's all a myth. (Joke - if only).

[annie_d]

I work with a number of people who also claim MANY benefits. Some people are very clever at that type of thing.

[katy]

Yes Annie, they have tutors for that sort of thing. I used to evaluate projects for the Home Office and the European Social fund. I once sat in on a Tutoring the Tutors course for a combined Law Centre/Citizens Advice Bureau initiative. They went through all the questions on the different benefit forms and told them what should be answered

The ones on benefits always have at least one disabled for a car grant. Kids who need special diets (ie. extra money) and it goes on and on. Benefits do not seem to be available for a poverty stricken 85 year old pensioner or someone who has always worked and does not know how to tap into the system.

There is starting to be a problem in Spain with sick leave...long term depression, bad knee etc. A Groundsman at my Golf Course had 2 months and two months part-time off for injury to his big toe!

[Don]

This thread has become rather interesting. Some strong views posted, none of which I am going to contest. I have reflected long and hard over recent years. When I graduated many many years ago I couldnt walk into an engineering job so rather than sign on, I got a casual job. As it happens I answered an ad for Currys the electrical people and they asked if I knew how to set up a tv (which I did because my Dad had built our tv set at home) so I was employed as an engineering graduate delivering and setting up colour tvs when they were just launched. So now you know my age. I never did sign on benefit but got a tech job then got redundant, then got another and promotion and moved for another promotion and eventually was offered a posting to Sevilla. I could hardly afford to bring up a family but we managed, I built two cars up from bare bodyshells as it was the only way I could afford to run two cars and finally things began to turn more financially favourable. If I had not got divorced a few years back, then I would probably be a millionaire (GBP wise) but an unhappy one. Now I am happy but not poor and I admit that I have no interest in voting as I cant find anyone worth voting for. I cringe at how the UK government have sold off UK infrastructure. Who owns key UK "businesses" such as chemicals, water supply, power generation and so on? Belgians, French and German companies to a great extent. These basics for UK society should never have been privatised. I wont get much state pension because I went out on a limb and tried to make the best of what was on offer and I cant wait to retire and reap the benefits of all this leisure time we were promised back in the 60s and 70s. To be honest I dont know if Spain or UK will be the place for retirement yet, hence why I find the views on this thread so intreresting. Gracias a todos.

[Cassandra]

I think it's the same in any developed country. While Spain doesn't give direct welfare benefits (as far as I know) it almost certainly spends significant amounts of money on the problem in other ways so maybe the public isn't as aware of the costs.

I'm not trying to justify it but the reason for the higher funding is probably because refugees are meant to be a short term problem and probably were until the economic migrants started joining them. All our governments need to find a way to speed up the process and allow people to take work and stay or move them back or on to somewhere else if necessary. Canada is a long way from Europe so different solutions may be needed but the EU is quick enough to unify idiotic things like the size of cucumbers and what can be labelled as 'chocolate' so maybe it's time for a unified policy on immigration so that no one country ends up being dumped on.

[Grouser]

For a different perspective have a look here:
http://www.valentinoachakdeng.org/
I have just finished 'What is the What' the book describing Valentino's journey as one of the lost boys. It is one of those books that is difficult but important to read because you know the horrible things described are true and continue to happen now.

[Lavanda]

I did look at the site, Grouser, with much interest. Obviously, there is a big picture out there with degrees of 'problems' some of which make ours look tiny. However, and it's a big 'however', the slide of countries into anarchay, extreme left-wing or extreme right-wing politics starts almost without notice. Ireland have just voted 'No' to the Lisbon Treaty but the rest of the EU politicians are pushing on, regardless. The People of Europe (including the Irish) are sitting back and letting a small handful of Dictators and Meglomanics do what they like. WHY ARE THERE NO RIOTS IN THE STREETS???

When people finally 'wake up' to how their rights, wishes, views, opinions, wants, needs, whatever, have been eroded and, finally abolished, it will be too late. The rise of the Right, with all its attendent horrors is inevitable in the EU. Give it a few years and we may be reading about our own refugee status and our own forceable displacement.

We live in interesting times. They will become frightening.

[olive]

People won't wake up for a while. They are comfortable, have enough food to throw away stuff each week. Sure they complain but that is the British nature to mumble on about stuff before going off and compounding the problem.

Now if Big Brother 9 was turned off or better still TV then it might be different. As it is eveyone is comfortably numb.

olive

[Grouser]

When things get tough it's the people of the third world who bear the brunt.
Rising prices of staple commodities such as corn and rice are a problem for the poorer amongst us but for the poor of the third world they mean starvation. If you are living hand to mouth with no margin left over at the end of the week and the price of food rises by a third then you will be eating a third less every week.
This is happening now for three main reasons.
1: The rise of China and India with the Chinese, in particular, wanting to eat more meat and a greater variety of foodstuffs.
2: The vagaries of more extreme climate patterns washing away crops in one place and creating drought in another.
3: The rush to grow crops for fuel rather than food taking away valuable food production particularly in the US breadbasket.

I would contend that the bickering about power within the EU is the equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns. Hard decisions need to be made now about our future relative to creating new, sustainable, energy sources and food production. These decisions cannot be made by governments who have a view only for the short term. That is every government in Europe. All make policy around the need/desire to cling to power and therefore only with the next election in mind. To mix metaphors, they won't bite the bullet until the **** hits the fan, and when it does it will be the world's poorest that bear the brunt, as they are already beginning to do now.
Is it any wonder they want to escape?

[hillybilly]

Maybe Canada is the new Spain
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... grate.html

[Jool]

I hate to be the voice of doom and gloom but Spain is going the same way as the UK. Local spanish say the same things about their government and only last week a local told me how this spanish government takes care of all the hobos, criminals, homosexuals and so on rather than, as he saw it,all the people who work and try and keep a business alive. It is the wonderful legacy of the EU. Every european country that has succumbed to the totalitarian short-sighted thinking where rights are given to those who have no concept of responsibility and those who are responsible are penalised more and more is suffering the same fate. There are no rights without responsibility - imagine what will happen when everyone demands their rights yet there is no one to deliver them as no one feels responsible for anything...????? Tax paying european citizens, wherever they are need to put a stop to it now.........especially as we pay billions to the fat Eurocrats and they reduce our quality of life.........and they completely corrupt the concept of equal give more "equality" to those they see as under-privileged.......

[bubba]

we have just had three days in the uk, it was awful.
we stayed in 5 star hotel in london , room was very warm but we were told we were not allowed to open the the sealed windows due to health and safety in case we wanted to commit suicide and jump out. traffic lights everywhere, cameras everywhere. food horrible we had seafood in a good restaurant in docklands it was tasteless like most of the food we ate in the uk. went into a 24hr tesco and we thought we were in a foreign country and it was filthy. even in essex where we visited old friends it was a little better but still horrible. a lot of people seem to wee in the streets which I suppose is due to most public toilets being filthy.
Spain is fantastic compared to the uk. when anyone gets down about living in spain take a short trip to the uk, and you will come back refreshed and so happy that you live here now. but at the same time is a little sad that my home country is in such a bad way and I felt that I no longer belong to that country and did not feel comfortable. and any british people that we spoke to hated living in the uk and all wanted to leave but were unable to.
The hotel wanted 19 pounds for a fry up and 14 pounds for toast and pastries, we were horrified. I think we are spoilt living here, even with the problems in spain it is a far better place to live.

[julian]

"this spanish government takes care of all the hobos, criminals, homosexuals and so on rather than, as he saw it,all the people who work and try and keep a business alive"...strange in this day and age to put homosexuals in the same group as criminals etc..don´t homosexuals work and try to keep their businesses alive?

[Jool]

I think it is reflecting the fact that homosexuals have been given rights and recognition by Zapatero that were not there before - eg to marry, and that is still far less accepted in Spain than in other countries even though they are very tolerant of gay men living together......that was how I understood it. After all the PP and many of its supporters are not pro gay rights..........

[katy]

we have just had three days in the uk, it was awful.
we stayed in 5 star hotel in london it was a little better but still horrible. a lot of people seem to wee in the streets which I suppose is due to most public toilets being filthy.
.

Seems no-where is perfect.....

Town crier..."HUMAN WASTE DISGUSTS RESIDENTS"

...a spokesman for Cártama town council said that everything was being done to avoid the creation of rafts of human waste in the Guadalhorce river this summer after residents complained that not only did they smell bad but they were sources of infection....He said it was a provisional solution until the Junta's project to install a collector of human waste could be implemented"

[bubba]

Many inland villages have a sewage problem, as does the coast ,but I am talking about the west end of london. I saw so much puke and wee in three days it was amazing.
After three days I decided that the only things I really miss are the little bakers who bake their own bread and cakes and the chip shops, those chips tasted so good. oh and buying a newspaper on sunday and getting all the free mags, cds etc.

[katy]

I miss the Sundays and supplements, I don't know what I need to buy anymore