Is spain cheaper than the UK??

[smiler]

Hello

I was wondering what forum members think. Do those that live in Andalucia find it has a lower cost of living than the UK or is there not much difference. As I said in a previous post i am moving there for a while in April to start a new branch of my business and continue running my UK business from there.


One thing I am particularly pleased about is that i hear you do not have to pay for a TV licence, I cant stand giving the BBC my money as I think its rubbish, (except for the odd thing like Planet Earth the new david attenbourough prog, which is amazing) I rarely watch BBC1 or 2 so £131 a year is a right ol rip off!!

Also, from what ive read council tax is a lot cheaper, I am paying approx £700 yr for a 1 bed flat.

What about other bills, mobile etc and food? It seems the rail fares in Spain are good compared to the UK. Whats everyone thoughts?

In my head i imagine its about 10% lower overall, would that be about right?

[katy]

I think its about the same although I know many on here will disagree with me. If you are in a rural area council taxes will be much lower here. Food is the same. You would find it less expensive here if you have lots of booze and cigs. Telephone is higher here and electric about the same. Eating out isn't much different unless you choose to eat in transport caff sort of places. Even many country ventas charge about 9 euros for a chicken and 5 chips type of meal.

[spanish_lad]

Hello
One thing I am particularly pleased about is that i hear you do not have to pay for a TV licence

thats correct. but two things to remember, A. spanish tv is WORSE than english, and to get sky it is illegal and you have to pay a one off fee of 600 euros. you weigh the differences.

Also, from what ive read council tax is a lot cheaper

yes it is, but compare the state of the roads in spain compared to those in the uk. thats why its cheaper.

What about other bills, mobile

mobile phone calls (movistar) are ALOT more EXPENSIVE than the uk on any network, there are NO free minutes and NO free texts.

food?

it probably is. its all relative. a packet of bacon is €1.60, a loaf of bread €0.90

It seems the rail fares in Spain are good compared to the UK.

again, look at the service you get. in-comparable amount of trains. uk, one every 10 / 15 min, spain, 2 a day. thats why they are cheaper.

In my head i imagine its about 10% lower overall, would that be about right?

only if you survive on air and water. and live in cloud cookoo land.

broadband in spain is around 12 pounds a month, in spain its at least 30€ a month.

your business will take less profit than it does in the uk, and things will seem cheaper. if you take off the rose tinted glasses, and actually work things out as a percentage of your profit, then you will clearly see that things are more expensive in spain, it is all relative. just because its sunny doesn´t mean the grass is greener.

[smiler]

just because its sunny doesn´t mean the grass is greener.
_________________


I dont expect to see the grass greener, im expecting it to be a bit scorched looking!

I also dont expect it to be that much cheaper, although certain things just from what ive read indicate it is perhaps a bit cheaper. ie no TV licence.

However as its March and weve had snow in the last couple of days, a few sunrays will do me just fine.

[Susi]

Spanish Lad
Why does the price of food only consist of the ingredients for a bacon sandwich? Obviously that is going to be more expensive.
It is still possible where I live to have a 3 course menu del dia with wine for 7 euros.

[katy]

There's lots of places even in Marbella for 7.95 if you are not too choosy what you eat, small salad or soup for starters, insipid chicken/veal/pork or rubbery rosada for main and yogurt/flan from supermarket for pudding. Most of them haven't changed their menu for at least 15 years.

[TC]

Groceries are much cheaper, and I mean Spanish groceries not imported Brit items!

[frank]

As a fairly frequent visitor, I used to think it was cheap, but over the years I think you are catching us up on a lot of things. Plus it's important to bear in mind, wages are a hell of lot lower. A lot more umemployed, Morroccans and many immigrants happy to take jobs at those low prices, so there doesn't seem any reason for wages to increase. Everyone seems to quote wine, true it is cheaper, but unless you have a problem, that represents an extremely small part of the weekly spend. Overall, I think some things will be cheaper, some dearer. I don't notice things being much cheaper nowadays. Some of the prices quoted for menu del día sound fine, and whilst not wanting to sound like Katy (there's miles difference between us in financial terms! ) some of the food is extremely ordinary. I only ever eat "Spanish" food there, and have to say, we've had some excellent food, but we've also had some rubbish.

[chrisuk]

I find food tastes better, price wise it depends on where you shop and what you want, for the DIY freaks power tools and variety out strip the UK in price by 20~40%, I've compared.

Can of beer from 20 cents, cigs roughly 2.15 a pack of 20s, bread between 50 to 90 cents, ts one gets me...milk fom 45 to 75 but its only UHT (long life) no freash that I've seen so far, pack of 10 eggs 1.20 but better qualiy from locals and there's lots of them about, meat depends but it is cheaper but not a hell of alot, tastes better though as do the veggies (fresh)

[silver]

chrisuk fresh milk comes in plastic bags and tall tetra brick that you will find in the fridge in most supermarket and gasoline stations.
Chicken br*** at 4€kilo ..and it tastes like chicken and not like fish (anyone returning to England after a reasonable stay here will note the difference) pork that is not "dry" from 4€ Beef from 7€...Fish..fresher and cheaper...fruit cheaper...eating/coffee out cheaper.

Spanish tv is WORSE than english

5 national stations to choose from and many local ones...worse for adverts and its in Spanish...a lot of good programs..some English...

get sky it is illegal

What?

compare the state of the roads in spain

Compare the kilometers of road.
katy... I would have thought you too choosy to try...

Eating out isn't much different

Spain is not as cheap as it used to be...but its still cheaper.

[costakid]

You should also bear in mind the tax situation if you run a Uk business you will have to post two tax returns. thats two accountants fees and we all know how cheap they are.

[frank]

Also, from what ive read council tax is a lot cheaper

yes it is, but compare the state of the roads in spain compared to those in the uk. thats why its cheaper.

[

Just speaking with our friends out there, last weekend there were 20 mile tailbacks into Granada, took them two and a half hours, instead of one hour.
I've never been passed San Pedro/Marbella way without hitting traffic. Parts of the roads seem good, others, awful! As I go on the pay motorway, when I bypass bucket and spade territory of CDS, I hardly see a soul, very quiet.

[fincalospinos]

Frank Says

A lot more unemployed, Morroccans and many immigrants happy to take jobs at those low prices, so there doesn't seem any reason for wages to increase

Why do people assume that this is a reason for low wages ?

According to the figures produced by OECD, unemployment in Spain at the end of 2005 was 10.5%, in the UK it was 5.5% , based on the number claiming jobseekers allowance, however, another 7% of people between the age of 25 - 54 were claiming incapacity benefit, and these figures do not include illegal immigrants that dont appear on any register.



I have owned a business in UK for many years, and now run my own business in Spain. In general it is no easier running a business here, but the tax system is fairer, there being far fewer demands on the social purse, and I have always believed that it isn't "Turnover" that counts, it is "Leftover"
Here in Spain the nett profit as a percentage of turnover is far higher than in the UK.

[spanish_lad]

5 national stations to choose from and many local ones...worse for adverts and its in Spanish...a lot of good programs..some English...

have you WATCHED the soaps?? lol.. the acting is abismal !

What?

am i not right in thinking that to recieve sky in spain you need the reciever registered to a uk address, thereby comitting fraud by having it in spain?

Compare the kilometers of road.

i wasn´t saying the AMOUNT, i said the STATE, the CONDITION of the roads. the amount of potholes and lumps and bumps is laughable.

[Moving Soon]

Although I don't live in Spain permanently (yet!) I'm already aware of some striking differences in prices.

Train fares for example - price of a standard class open return from Manchester to London, travelling tomorrow, journey time average 2 hrs 25 mins - £202.00. Price of return journey from Malaga to Cordoba, also travelling tomorrow, similar journey time - Approx 34E depending on time of journey. Price of return journey from Malaga to Sevilla, same date, similar journey time - approx 32E. Some difference there, and there are a lot more than 2 trains a day on those routes, Spanish Lad! Plus Spanish trains are in my experience spotlessly clean and generally reliable on time and not overcrowded, something that certainly can't be said of English ones.

Buses - from Velez-Malaga where I am going to live I there is a half-hourly service to Malaga from early morning to late at night, local service every 15/20 minutes to the nearest coastal town, and a tram system soon to start running as well. Fares are cheap - 0.85E each way Velez-Malaga to Torre del Mar, 2.51E each way Velez-Malaga to Malaga for a journey time of 1 hr 15 min (faster by Directo service which is hourly on weekdays). From where I live in England to Manchester where I work there are 3 buses at peak times in the morning and 3 back in the evening - no service during the day, later evenings or at weekends and the fare is £3.00 each way for a journey time of 1 hr 10 mins.

Council Tax - I pay £900 per year (last year's bill) for a 2-bed terraced house (and before someone queries it yes that really is the cost, the local authority where I live has one of the highest Band A rates in the country due to the high proportion of its housing stock being in Band A). In Spain the IBI and basura tax combined for my house was 250E for last year.

I don't smoke so that doesn't affect me but alcohol and meals out are much cheaper in Spain.

Can't really comment on electricity gas and water as my bills at the moment are obviously not based on permanent living. They cost me £70 per month in total at the moment. House insurance for my house in Spain is much cheaper (just under 150E for the year for buildings and contents as against £200+ in England). Food is cheaper for staples but obviously more expensive for imported goods so I guess you can make it as cheap or as expensive as you like depending on what you choose to eat. I don't have Sky TV in England and don't want it in Spain either, but will have to pay the one-off cost for getting a satellite dish and receiver for free to view channels - but won't have to pay the colour TV licence so that will balance out after about 2 and a bit years.

Some things I have found more expensive in Spain - electrical appliances although the gap seems to be narrowing, furniture (cheap furniture in Spain is cheap and nasty but you can buy quite decent stuff at lower prices in England) and reasonable quality clothes (haven't found the equivalent of TKMaxx or designer outlets in Spain yet, more's the pity). Again cheap clothes are availabe in Spain but they tend to be yucky man made fibres and badly cut. From the information I have gained from this forum it seems Broadband will be more expensive than our ISP in England and line rental charges for a landline will be more as well.

I certainly think we will be able to live in Spain for much less than we currently need in England. But of course everyone's circumstances are different and costs will depend on lifestyle choices, for example we won't need or want to run a car in Spain.

[silver]

spanish_lad

have you WATCHED the soaps?? lol.. the acting is abismal !

I go for other options..dont like soap in mi eyes...but if you are talking about the "novelas" well they are mostly south American..the ol ladies and young girls (well they just swoon over those hunky romantic fellas and could not give a stiff monkey if they are not good actors) seem to love em.

receive sky in Spain

well don't have sky either..know nothing about dishes..just took it that sky meant dish ..but Spanish have dishes that receive channels in English.

i wasn't´t saying the AMOUNT, i said the STATE, the CONDITION of the roads. the amount of potholes and lumps and bumps is laughable.

Yeh..what I'm saying... is that they have more miles of road to look after and a lot more traffic to bear...STATE + CONDITION is relative to AMOUNT....so why be surprised.

[silver]

Moving Soon

TKMaxx

Try shops that say "factory" (Plaza Mayor near Malaga airport for 1)
You seem to have worked out your cost of living very well. Of course prises have gone up over the past 20 years..some seem to think it a rip off paying more than before...

[spanish_lad]

Yeh..what I'm saying... is that they have more miles of road to look after and a lot more traffic to bear...STATE + CONDITION is relative to AMOUNT....so why be surprised.

do you really think that theres more miles of road in spain than there is in the uk ?

anyways, different point, i was trying to say that council tax is higher in the uk and they ("we") ?? have perfect roads. council tax in spain is lower and "we" have crappy roads.. ??

[lis48]

Totally agree with you Moving Soon. Out here my partner and I live very comfortably, eating and drinking out every week and running a car for £1000 a month. In the UK on my own I spent that on bills before I even factored in enjoying life. An evening out in UK would cost £50, here the bill is usually around £20 for the same drinks. That is at ventas just as we would go to pubs to eat in UK, not fancy hotels. My gas and electricity came to £100 a month in UK, here for the same size house they are about £30. I would reckon on £50 a month phone bill in UK, here about £40 but that includes a lot of calls to UK. But here we lack competitive stores like Asda and in the UK certainly electrical goods, cheap furniture etc. are far better value. It is more costly to set up house here and our first three months were much more expensive than we had anticipated. In my experience tho, day to day living is about two thirds of that in UK.

[kevin77]

As usual Silver has not thought through his answer and there is a glaring hole in his argument.

If the UK has less kilometres of road and more traffic (bigger population)
than Spain which has more kilometres of road and less traffic (smaller population).
Then surely, the state of roads in the UK would be expected to be worse, given the higher wear and tear ??.
According to SpanLad, this is not the case.