Coronavirus

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Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:40 am

Now it is my turn to not answer. I think 50% of the population would be reasonable in a world pandemic but I did not say that would make me ‘happy’. The big problem, in my unqualified opinion, is that Klopp should play ... whoops ... is that we are not in a pandemic situation. We are in a bad case of new flu situation and maybe we should allow it to run its course.

Edited three times as predictive text never predicts what I want to write.
Last edited by Lavanda on Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:44 am

As for the lockdown, I live like that most of the time, anyway. That doesn’t bother me other than not being able to visit my parents. I am a writer and also a person who needs a lot of time on my own. I can do solitary. As for the government telling me what to do, well, I follow the rules but thank goodness I am in Spain as I would be hard put to work out what the rules are in the U.K. day on day.

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firsttango
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby firsttango » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:02 pm

It is interesting to note that here in Spain the total overall deaths in 2020 were lower than in any year since 2015 and we weren't being restricted in anything whatsoever in 2015/16/17/18/19 (in fact in 2018 26 thousand more died than last year!!).......no pandemics, no hysteria, no lockdowns.......makes you think :wink:

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:12 pm

firsttango wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:02 pm It is interesting to note that here in Spain the total overall deaths in 2020 were lower than in any year since 2015 and we weren't being restricted in anything whatsoever in 2015/16/17/18/19 (in fact in 2018 26 thousand more died than last year!!).......no pandemics, no hysteria, no lockdowns.......makes you think :wink:
Can you tell us about your data source please? The official stats for 2020 deaths have no been announced. The only figure I can find is an estimate of 465k.

https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/muerte ... 59361.html

Desde el 1 de enero hasta el 31 de diciembre de 2020 se han registrado en España más de 68.000 muertes por encima de las esperadas en España. Las estimaciones del Sistema de Monitorización de la Mortalidad (MoMo) según la media de años anteriores indican que en 2020 lo habitual hubiese sido que fallecieran 397.000 personas en los doce meses del año. Según los últimos datos disponibles, los registros civiles han notificado más de 465.000 muertes por todas las causas durante ese periodo. Con estos datos, este 2020 sería el año más mortal de la historia democrática de España tanto en números absolutos como ajustando por población, según cálculos realizados por elDiario.es.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:18 pm

Lavanda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:40 am Now it is my turn to not answer. I think 50% of the population would be reasonable in a world pandemic but I did not say that would make me ‘happy’. The big problem, in my unqualified opinion, is that Klopp should play ... whoops ... is that we are not in a pandemic situation. We are in a bad case of new flu situation and maybe we should allow it to run its course.

Edited three times as predictive text never predicts what I want to write.
Sorry yes...happy is not the right word. Reasonable is more appropriate.

The issue is were are maybe not in a pandemic, but if we don't act we will be. At that point say for example 5% deaths (which is what would happen if there is no health care available). Then we won't need any lockdown, people will just stay at home without any government intervention. Same net effect as now apart from you won't get a fine but millions of people would be dead.

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firsttango
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby firsttango » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:12 pm
firsttango wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:02 pm It is interesting to note that here in Spain the total overall deaths in 2020 were lower than in any year since 2015 and we weren't being restricted in anything whatsoever in 2015/16/17/18/19 (in fact in 2018 26 thousand more died than last year!!).......no pandemics, no hysteria, no lockdowns.......makes you think :wink:
Can you tell us about your data source please? The official stats for 2020 deaths have no been announced. The only figure I can find is an estimate of 465k.

https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/muerte ... 59361.html

Desde el 1 de enero hasta el 31 de diciembre de 2020 se han registrado en España más de 68.000 muertes por encima de las esperadas en España. Las estimaciones del Sistema de Monitorización de la Mortalidad (MoMo) según la media de años anteriores indican que en 2020 lo habitual hubiese sido que fallecieran 397.000 personas en los doce meses del año. Según los últimos datos disponibles, los registros civiles han notificado más de 465.000 muertes por todas las causas durante ese periodo. Con estos datos, este 2020 sería el año más mortal de la historia democrática de España tanto en números absolutos como ajustando por población, según cálculos realizados por elDiario.es.

Yes indeed I can tell You about my data source it is the Spanish Ministry of Health and the statistics were released by the Spanish Government on the 22nd of this Month. The estimate you quote is greatly exaggerated by a whopping 64 thousand!


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https://www.mscbs.gob.es/estadEstudios/ ... yGjlHWnMDw

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:04 pm

Good grief, Firsttango!!! People are being terrorised, brainwashed and lied to on a HUGE level and this needs to be publicised and in the news. Why isn't it? Ah! There's another story.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:18 pm

Thank you again, FirstTango, for that post. The lies are being exposed on a daily basis. It seems there is a movement in the UK to open up business on 30th December in defiance of the totally unreasonable and unnecessary lock-down rules.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:52 pm

Except the figures are wrong and are only until around October. I asked some adult Spanish students to tell me the figures and all of them used
INE. Instituto Nacional de Estadística
and all of them came up with around 499,764

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:00 pm

Can you post the link, please, Mark?

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:05 pm

https://www.ine.es/jaxiT3/Tabla.htm?t=35177

You need to click the statistic you want to get the result

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:10 pm

Lavanda wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:44 am As for the lockdown, I live like that most of the time, anyway. That doesn’t bother me other than not being able to visit my parents. I am a writer and also a person who needs a lot of time on my own. I can do solitary. As for the government telling me what to do, well, I follow the rules but thank goodness I am in Spain as I would be hard put to work out what the rules are in the U.K. day on day.
It's simple, depends what the local Stasi decide and put on Twitter. Sledging is forbidden, Shopping is out as only food shops are open although large garden centres are nearly like department stores, plants are just shoved in a small area! I can go to M&S and on the way to the food hall wander around "essential clothes" which includes Jumpers, jeggings, jeans and bra's and pants etc. Jim-jams too. The home section is blocked off. Ok. to be short of towels, cushions or a rolling pin and chip pan :lolno: I can get my dogs claws trimmed but not my hair. Pubs are shut but in some areas you can queue in the cold and get a pint handed through a window

If you have had your photo on social media at least once then you are allowed to go to Dubai or if rich a private plane to St. Barts. So, tongue in cheek. just do as you think :D

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firsttango
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby firsttango » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:36 pm

markwilding wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:52 pm Except the figures are wrong and are only until around October. I asked some adult Spanish students to tell me the figures and all of them used
INE. Instituto Nacional de Estadística
and all of them came up with around 499,764
So you are saying that the figures released 4 days ago by the Spanish Government and the Health Ministry are Wrong and your students are the correct source?? Sorry Mark but that is laughable.....WHY would they do that? The site you post does use the word "estimate" frequently :wink: It does seem odd that you would dispute figures from the official Government website.....still in denial that you are being right royally played.

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:46 pm

Perhaps they forgot to inflate the figures!

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:27 pm

firsttango wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:36 pm
markwilding wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:52 pm Except the figures are wrong and are only until around October. I asked some adult Spanish students to tell me the figures and all of them used
INE. Instituto Nacional de Estadística
and all of them came up with around 499,764
So you are saying that the figures released 4 days ago by the Spanish Government and the Health Ministry are Wrong and your students are the correct source?? Sorry Mark but that is laughable.....WHY would they do that? The site you post does use the word "estimate" frequently :wink: It does seem odd that you would dispute figures from the official Government website.....still in denial that you are being right royally played.
Those figures cannot be used because they are incomplete. The students,who are actually professionals working for a multi national company so don't get the wrong idea and assume they are spotty kids, pointed out the warning at the bottom of the graph you posted.
roughly translated it says

"The incorporation of the deceased into the Death Index has a temporary decaling. Although the data is updated each month, not all deaths that occur in a given month can be incorporated into the following month; some do it later."

You can read about what the figures you posted means and why some people are getting the wrong end of the stick here.

https://factual.afp.com/los-datos-de-de ... s-proximos

meanwhile these are the national statistics figures in a easier to read graph which cannot be accessed on the link posted by you because the data has to be requested because the information is limited to certain health professionals. Only the complete death figures are available to the public

https://es.statista.com/estadisticas/47 ... en-espana/
Last edited by markwilding on Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:44 pm

firsttango wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:24 pm
Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:12 pm
firsttango wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:02 pm It is interesting to note that here in Spain the total overall deaths in 2020 were lower than in any year since 2015 and we weren't being restricted in anything whatsoever in 2015/16/17/18/19 (in fact in 2018 26 thousand more died than last year!!).......no pandemics, no hysteria, no lockdowns.......makes you think :wink:
Can you tell us about your data source please? The official stats for 2020 deaths have no been announced. The only figure I can find is an estimate of 465k.

https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/muerte ... 59361.html

Desde el 1 de enero hasta el 31 de diciembre de 2020 se han registrado en España más de 68.000 muertes por encima de las esperadas en España. Las estimaciones del Sistema de Monitorización de la Mortalidad (MoMo) según la media de años anteriores indican que en 2020 lo habitual hubiese sido que fallecieran 397.000 personas en los doce meses del año. Según los últimos datos disponibles, los registros civiles han notificado más de 465.000 muertes por todas las causas durante ese periodo. Con estos datos, este 2020 sería el año más mortal de la historia democrática de España tanto en números absolutos como ajustando por población, según cálculos realizados por elDiario.es.

Yes indeed I can tell You about my data source it is the Spanish Ministry of Health and the statistics were released by the Spanish Government on the 22nd of this Month. The estimate you quote is greatly exaggerated by a whopping 64 thousand!


Image


https://www.mscbs.gob.es/estadEstudios/ ... yGjlHWnMDw
[/quote

The link you posted doesn't link to that data you are quoting. It is a link to the ministry of health to make a request for the data. On the page it states that the requests can only be made by certain bodies and for certain reasons.

Did you actually get this information from the source as it has adverts on the page and I would be amazed if the MoH website features adverts with pictures of Donald Trump.

Is the screenshot from another website who claimed to have the data? That website may indeed have got the source info but it is incomplete data as there is a time lag in the ministry updating this table. This is why the newspaper articles I posted said that it was an estimate. It was their estimate of what the true figure will be once updated.

If you would like to know more about why the figures you quoted are incorrect have a read of the following
https://www.newtral.es/bulo-coronavirus ... /20200819/

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firsttango
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby firsttango » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:23 pm

What absolute nonsense ....... have you been drinking?

The yearly statistics posted are from the official Government/Ministry of Health page......If you click on the link at the site that I have indicated to help you .......guess what? There it is........no adverts..no pictures of Trump.....Nada....just their official statistical table collated and posted by them.....Posted 4 days ago. Even with a possible lag for December it would be highly unlikely to make much difference certainly not an extra 64k deaths in 1 month :roll:

Be interested to know if Lavanda, Beachy etc had a problem accessing the data from my link such as you describe that you had??


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Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:31 pm

Seems pretty clear to me.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:31 pm

I had no problem. It seemed fairly obvious to me.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:38 pm

That is not the data....that is the page to request the data.

Read the page from the screenshot you just posted...Read what it says

Los datos únicamente podrán ser cedidos a:

Centros o establecimientos sanitarios de titularidad pública o privada, destinados al diagnóstico y/o tratamiento médico y/o quirúrgico de enfermos ingresados, o atendidos de forma ambulatoria.
Administraciones públicas sanitarias.
Centros de investigación de carácter público.
Entidades aseguradoras autorizadas para operar en España en los ramos de vida o accidentes.


As for the Trump picture...open your own earlier screenshot. Tap on it and open full page....Donald's big smiling face is there.

You still cannot supply the source data. Additionally the screenshot on your earlier posr is just that a screenshot from a non verified source which has been shown to be incomplete data.

If you have total faith in your data and your abilities with statistics and data maybe we should have a little bet. Will you give me the same 9% advantage that you thought was insignificant in the excess deaths numbers?


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